Loaded with codes but running fine.

[SHOOFF508]

The previous owner of my car pulled the bulb from the cluster. Ive been slacking on reinstalling it, and i figured id let the car clear out before checking it. I did the timing belt 2 weekends or so ago and had the battery out. so today i finally got the mil back in, stole the seatbelt light who needs it haha and i pulled the following :: (definitions are from shotimes)

111 (system pass)
172 Lean
176 Lean again
219 Spout default to 10degrees before top dead center(guessing this is because i pulled out the timing advance pill to pass a tailpipe test,it worked. not going to reveal who taught me that trick. (i live in MA it sucks)
542 Fuel Pump seconday circuit fail

any advice ? directions, keeping in mind the car runs fine, other than the occaisional long crank after a short trip not warming up and an occaisional stutter under 4k when cold.

thanks

 

[Mr Anonymous]

First, plug your SPOUT back in.

Ignore the 542, that code will set any time the car stalls.

The other two lean codes suggest a post-MAF air leak. Did you clean your MAF as directed in your previous thread about bogging? If so, start looking for vacuum leaks/unmetered air getting into the intake.

 

[SHOOFF508]

yeah i put the spout right back in after the test. mafs been cleaned. i actually have a hole cut in my "super performace" intake system where i have my IAT jammed in, thats probably the deal with the lean codes im guessing. I just stopped for gas and pulled the neg cable for a few and wiped everything out so im gonna wait and see what comes back.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Were the codes KOEO codes, CM codes, or KOER codes?

CM (Continuous Memory) codes are stored for 40-80 cycles.

 

[SHOOFF508]

they were koeo

 

[revhardSHO]

they were koeo

172 (R,C) - HEGO (HO2S) sensor fault/lean

176 (R) - Insufficient TP change during no oxygen sensor switch detected

Generally, these two codes will vanish with new 02 sensors.

 

[hawkeye18]

I agree; it sounds like either a post-MAF leak, or change yer dang O2 sensors. If you can't remember the last time you changed them, you should anyway!

 

[Mr Anonymous]

The lack of basic diagnostic skills on this forum lately is astounding. :shakehead

Folks, when BOTH O2 sensors are showing the SAME condition (in this case, LEAN), more often than not, it is an ACTUAL condition. It is highly unlikely that both O2 sensors are going to fail to the exact same condition.

Only when a single O2 is repeatedly showing a condition or both are showing differing conditions is replacing the O2 sensors a reasonable course of action.

You shouldn't go throwing new parts at codes as the first course of action.

 

[revhardSHO]

is that hole before or after the maf?

 

[SHOOFF508]

before, however i found the intake falling off the throttle today, had to change a pulley as well so im going to have to clear codes and see what comes back this week sometime. maybe tomorow. from there well figure out whats up.

i know one code that should be gone in the one for the timing advance pill being pulled and the other for the fuel pump.

im just hoping i can squash the lean codes, sick of staring at the MIL, feel like an idiot for putting the bulb back in, however its a crucial tool for tuning so yeah...

 

[SHOOFF508]

after a few adjustments and a reset im left with 172 and 176. no vaccuum leaks present. ricerocket intake tightened down.

any other usual suspects besides the 02's

 

[revhardSHO]

Folks, when BOTH O2 sensors are showing the SAME condition (in this case, LEAN), more often than not, it is an ACTUAL condition. It is highly unlikely that both O2 sensors are going to fail to the exact same condition.

Right, it’s highly unlikely that 02 sensors would fail with the same condition. LOL.

after a few adjustments and a reset im left with 172 and 176. no vaccuum leaks present. ricerocket intake tightened down.

If you have verified no vacuum leaks are present, you're down to 02 sensors.

Unless of course you want to start by changing out the wiring harness, since according to mr a, 02s are HIGHLY UNLIKELY to fail with the same condition. I don’t know how many times I've seen both 172 and 176 disappear with new 02s.

 

[SHOOFF508]

I figured out also that my amplifier for my subwoofers have enough voltage capacity that when i disconnet the battery its useless, all my settings and clock as well as the ecm remain uncleared. hahaha.

i reset everything again today and now im stuck with just 176. bizzar. the 172 seems to have vanished on its own.

 

[SHOOFF508]

Well getting down to it, the front 02 sensor was a cheap aftermarket job with a neon green wire sheath. it was crossthreaded in and wiggling loose. tossed that one out and firmly cross threaded in a new one because a tap wasnt an option. the rear one rounded off and would not budge even when heated up. so i decided to let her be. cleared out the ecm by disconnecting the battery and the main ecm harness under the hood (sometimes for me due to my giant sound system the amp retains enough juice to make the ecm retain everything, also keeping radio presets and clock.) and the 30 min drive around town the light has not come on. this is the longest since ive put the check engine bulb back in. tonight i have a longer trip planned and well take it from there.

next weeks epidsode will consist of alluminum subframe bushings and a newly painted/cleaned intake

 

[SHOOFF508]

Re-Use a Valve Cover Gasket ??

I did my top 60k about 1500 miles ago. Replaced my tube seals and valve cover gaskets.

This coming week i will be installing a newly painted intake manifold. im looking to spray the front valve cover as well. will i be able to remove it and reuse the rubber gaskit with a bit of silicone because it is so fresh and new, ive had good luck in the past with other cars, not sure if the SHO will require me to go out and spend another $100 on the gaskets. if so forget that.

 

[revhardSHO]

Very nice work. Sounds like you are making progress. Lets hope your check engine light stays off! :sun:

 

[SHOOFF508]

:angelnot:it sure stayed off alright *tears apart dash trim and removes bulb, tosses dash back together*

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I don’t know how many times I've seen both 172 and 176 disappear with new 02s.

And I don't know how many times I've seen replacing both O2's *NOT* correct 172 and 176 codes, but I can guarantee that it's been more times than I've seen it correct them. I said it was highly unlikely, not impossible. But, then again, I've probably only worked on 3000 or so SHO's so you clearly have far more experience with such skilled diagnostics as well as a greater understanding of PCM operations than I do.

More often than not, a vacuum leak/unmetered air entering the intake, a contaminated MAF sensor, or a fuel flow problem are the culprits when both O2's are showing lean. Same thing with both O2's showing rich, except that an air leak is unlikely. The MAF is the far more sensitive device in the A/F calculations, and is much more likely to be the source of codes common to both O2's than the O2's themselves. I've had at least three cars come in over the past two weeks that had lean codes on both banks and were way down on power. In two of the three cases, the owners had replaced both O2's but still had the same codes and conditions. In all three cases, cleaning the MAF sensor filaments corrected the codes, the power problems, and had the cars running like a top. Sure, exceptions apply, but just telling people to hang new parts instead of eliminating all of the possible FREE causes first is just plain ignorant.

As a perfect example in this case, had the OP simply replaced both O2's as you suggested, he would have continued to get codes as his intake was loose at the TB which is one of the first things you check if you have a common sense approach to diagnostics. Re-securing that tube and verifying no further vacuum leaks eliminated one of the two codes and allowed him to isolate a single O2 sensor as problematic, and since the sensor was crossthreaded and loose it may very well have been fine and just skewed by fresh air. Now he can use the $50 he saved on the second sensor to buy gas.

Yes, sometimes both O2's fail, and I personally prefer to replace O2's in pairs, BUT just telling someone to replace O2's to correct common lean/rich codes is lazy and ignorant.

 

[revhardSHO]

Sure, exceptions apply, but just telling people to hang new parts instead of eliminating all of the possible FREE causes first is just plain ignorant.

This must be one of those rare exceptions..

Re-securing that tube and verifying no further vacuum leaks eliminated one of the two codes and allowed him to isolate a single O2 sensor as problematic

So I guess what you're trying to say here -- is that there was in fact a problem with the 02 sensor -- is that it?

 

[SHOOFF508]

And I don't know how many times I've seen replacing both O2's *NOT* correct 172 and 176 codes, but I can guarantee that it's been more times than I've seen it correct them. I said it was highly unlikely, not impossible. But, then again, I've probably only worked on 3000 or so SHO's so you clearly have far more experience with such skilled diagnostics as well as a greater understanding of PCM operations than I do.

More often than not, a vacuum leak/unmetered air entering the intake, a contaminated MAF sensor, or a fuel flow problem are the culprits when both O2's are showing lean. Same thing with both O2's showing rich, except that an air leak is unlikely. The MAF is the far more sensitive device in the A/F calculations, and is much more likely to be the source of codes common to both O2's than the O2's themselves. I've had at least three cars come in over the past two weeks that had lean codes on both banks and were way down on power. In two of the three cases, the owners had replaced both O2's but still had the same codes and conditions. In all three cases, cleaning the MAF sensor filaments corrected the codes, the power problems, and had the cars running like a top. Sure, exceptions apply, but just telling people to hang new parts instead of eliminating all of the possible FREE causes first is just plain ignorant.

As a perfect example in this case, had the OP simply replaced both O2's as you suggested, he would have continued to get codes as his intake was loose at the TB which is one of the first things you check if you have a common sense approach to diagnostics. Re-securing that tube and verifying no further vacuum leaks eliminated one of the two codes and allowed him to isolate a single O2 sensor as problematic, and since the sensor was crossthreaded and loose it may very well have been fine and just skewed by fresh air. Now he can use the $50 he saved on the second sensor to buy gas.

Yes, sometimes both O2's fail, and I personally prefer to replace O2's in pairs, BUT just telling someone to replace O2's to correct common lean/rich codes is lazy and ignorant.

Yoda is wise. *thumbs up*