Livernois V17 Tune Results

[ridered74]

They sent me the updated V17 tune this week so I figured I'd give it a shot and do some dragy runs on it. Full disclosure, I have the upgraded LMS HPFP, so results may vary slightly for those still on stock pump.

Best dragy run was 12.59 @109.84 mph. Also ran a 12.67 @109.06 and a 12.66 @109.59. Boost was steady 15 psi across 3rd and 4th gear and wastegate varied between 60 and 70%. I was pleasantly surprised at the times it ran on 93 octane. Last week I tested out their E30 tune that I got a year ago and the best I could manage was 12.42. A year ago at the track the E30 tune was consistently putting down 12.2's and 12.3's, so I think my crap tires this year are slowing me down a bit. I ran these tires twice last year at the track and was about a tenth or slightly more slower than with my other tires/wheels.

The only issue I ran into on this 93 tune was as soon as I shifted to 2nd my knock went up to 6 and steadily went down to zero, then when I shifted into 3rd the same thing happened. I got zero positive knock on the E30 tune and on my gearhead E30 tune, so I'm not sure what the exact cause is, but this week I am going to switch to my gearhead auto octane tune an see if I get knock on that tune.

So long story short, if you are still running LMS and are running the V11 tune, you should have them update you to the V17 tune.

 

[StealBlueSho]

They sent me the updated V17 tune this week so I figured I'd give it a shot and do some dragy runs on it. Full disclosure, I have the upgraded LMS HPFP, so results may vary slightly for those still on stock pump.

Best dragy run was 12.59 @109.84 mph. Also ran a 12.67 @109.06 and a 12.66 @109.59. Boost was steady 15 psi across 3rd and 4th gear and wastegate varied between 60 and 70%. I was pleasantly surprised at the times it ran on 93 octane. Last week I tested out their E30 tune that I got a year ago and the best I could manage was 12.42. A year ago at the track the E30 tune was consistently putting down 12.2's and 12.3's, so I think my crap tires this year are slowing me down a bit. I ran these tires twice last year at the track and was about a tenth or slightly more slower than with my other tires/wheels.

The only issue I ran into on this 93 tune was as soon as I shifted to 2nd my knock went up to 6 and steadily went down to zero, then when I shifted into 3rd the same thing happened. I got zero positive knock on the E30 tune and on my gearhead E30 tune, so I'm not sure what the exact cause is, but this week I am going to switch to my gearhead auto octane tune an see if I get knock on that tune.

So long story short, if you are still running LMS and are running the V11 tune, you should have them update you to the V17 tune.

Good deal, and nice write up. I would double check your OAR just it make sure it didn’t go up after the knocking.

 

[ridered74]

Good deal, and nice write up. I would double check your OAR just it make sure it didn’t go up after the knocking.

It held steady at -.96 thru all the knock surprisingly enough.

 

[SM105K]

Ridered nice write up. The real question is, will this tune hold up on a stock HPFP?

 

[ridered74]

Ridered nice write up. The real question is, will this tune hold up on a stock HPFP?

Agreed. Hopefully someone with a stock hpfp that also has an sct device that would be able to log will try it out and update us.

If anyone lms is near central ohio without the ability to log, I would be more than happy to meet up and lend my x4 for logging.

 

[Kanajana]

Thanks for your review riderer74.

I have v17 loaded as well, but haven't been able to get to the track (kind of blown to **** for me given the current situation).

Under my normal "spirited" day-to-day driving (which I do w/ traction control off 99% of the time) it generally seems to be well behaved. However I did run into the 2-3 missed shift / tach bounce off redline when I forgot to turn the traction off, which I was hoping was solved w/ v17. It was cool but not super cold (mid-upper 40s F).

 

[ridered74]

Thanks for your review rider74.

I have v17 loaded as well, but haven't been able to get to the track (kind of blown to **** for me given the current situation).

Under my normal "spirited" day-to-day driving (which I do w/ traction control off 99% of the time) it generally seems to be well behaved. However I did run into the 2-3 missed shift / tach bounce off redline when I forgot to turn the traction off, which I was hoping was solved w/ v17. It was cool but not super cold (mid-upper 40s F).

Now that you mention it, I don't think I tested with it on. I'll have to do that before I switch the tune back over.

 

[yaycandy]

I seen low fuel pressure with...v13 i think i have? Or maybe v11. Not sure how to tell without my tuner handy.
So i stopped using that livernois tune all together. As of last month i started using it again to watch it with sct after getting base with stock and ajp reading to go by. Yea im never putting that version of livernois back in after i seen what i seen on fuel pressure and lamba reading.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Ok so I have datalog from a source who will remain anonymous until they decide to come out....

If you might recall... in one of these threads I stated that for LMS to fix the issue, they would need to lean out their mixture to take the stress off the fueling components... well guess what?

They are commanding .77 Lambda steady at WOT through redline...instead of fattening up the mixture starting at .77 lambda then at 5100 rpms dropping to. 76 lambda and then tapering to .74 by 6200 rpms which is exactly where their fueling problems were...that 5100-6200 rpms range...

This SHOULD alleviate the fueling issues on a stock fuel pump. They also could have changed how they are targeting load too which would also make a difference...

 

[SM105K]

Ok so I have datalog from a source who will remain anonymous until they decide to come out....

If you might recall... in one of these threads I stated that for LMS to fix the issue, they would need to lean out their mixture to take the stress off the fueling components... well guess what?

They are commanding .77 Lambda steady at WOT through redline...instead of fattening up the mixture starting at .77 lambda then at 5100 rpms dropping to. 76 lambda and then tapering to .74 by 6200 rpms which is exactly where their fueling problems were...that 5100-6200 rpms range...

This SHOULD alleviate the fueling issues on a stock fuel pump. They also could have changed how they are targeting load too which would also make a difference...

100% PREDICTABLE. Wonder what finally made them change their tuning philosophy?

 

[StealBlueSho]

100% PREDICTABLE. Wonder what finally made them change their tuning philosophy?

I’m not sure if they are really changing their philosophy...it’s still much richer than anyone else other than stock....

But to your point... there are countless posts where they state they will not lean out the mixture due to safety concerns... but evolution is good.

Who knows...I’m just providing data.

 

[SM105K]

I’m not sure if they are really changing their philosophy...it’s still much richer than anyone else other than stock....

But to your point... there are countless posts where they state they will not lean out the mixture due to safety concerns... but evolution is good.

Who knows...I’m just providing data.

I find it interesting. In LMS' posts in the past like you mentioned, they were adamant that you could not do what other tuners were doing. I really enjoyed the technical back and forth between LMS and Matt at Gearhead discussing this exact thing. Then seeing what Matt was saying within my own tune....all I could do is chuckle.

From your data, it seems LMS leaned out the tune. Change in tuning philosophy? Maybe. Forced Evolution seems more appropriate I would say.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

I find it interesting. In LMS' posts in the past like you mentioned, they were adamant that you could not do what other tuners were doing. I really enjoyed the technical back and forth between LMS and Matt at Gearhead discussing this exact thing. Then seeing what Matt was saying within my own tune....all I could do is chuckle.

From your data, it seems LMS leaned out the tune. Change in tuning philosophy? Maybe. Forced Evolution seems more appropriate I would say.

If 0.76 is leaner, what was it before?

 

[StealBlueSho]

So here is a screen shot of the target lambda from each tune... you can see on the V11 it tapers down to .74 (for reference stock call for .68 at WOT) where as V17 calls for constant .77..

 

[ridered74]

Thanks for your review rider74.

I have v17 loaded as well, but haven't been able to get to the track (kind of blown to **** for me given the current situation).

Under my normal "spirited" day-to-day driving (which I do w/ traction control off 99% of the time) it generally seems to be well behaved. However I did run into the 2-3 missed shift / tach bounce off redline when I forgot to turn the traction off, which I was hoping was solved w/ v17. It was cool but not super cold (mid-upper 40s F).

Glad you mentioned that. I took it out for a run tonight with traction control on, it was horrible. On all my gearhead tunes, the acceleration arc is straight. I've only seen one this wonky on my car once, and I won't run that tune again either.

Lms at least does ok with traction control off, but I'm way to forgetful to run a tune where you have to manually turn that off every time you drive it.

Full quarter mile time was 12.91, the difference from yesterday probably being the multiple tenths it took to shift into 2nd gear.

 

[76FoMoCo]

IMO LMS likes to run closer to the 6200 line and all the other tuners will shift at about 5800 to 6000 as there is nothing to gain above this rpm. this is why you get the shift punt to red line. IMO

 

[StealBlueSho]

IMO LMS likes to run closer to the 6200 line and all the other tuners will shift at about 5800 to 6000 as there is nothing to gain above this rpm. this is why you get the shift punt to red line. IMO

My GH tune shifts at 6200 and I have never missed a shift with it.

 

[Kanajana]

Glad you mentioned that. I took it out for a run tonight with traction control on, it was horrible. On all my gearhead tunes, the acceleration arc is straight. I've only seen one this wonky on my car once, and I won't run that tune again either.

Lms at least does ok with traction control off, but I'm way to forgetful to run a tune where you have to manually turn that off every time you drive it.

Full quarter mile time was 12.91, the difference from yesterday probably being the multiple tenths it took to shift into 2nd gear.

Thanks for confirming the shifting issue w/ TC on isn't just me. Given the issue was pretty prominent w/ v11, one would think this would have been addressed given the amount of time that has passed since it was first identified. Not sure how many others are willing to test v17 to further confirm, but very understandable if give people don't want to do something that somewhat emulates the feeling of having just blown your transmission. Is your trans fluid "slightly overfilled"? :/

Part of the [theoretical] benefit of going with Livernois years ago seemed to be the a combination of the simplicity of a plug & play as well as the claimed reliability. And you sure as **** should get those things given the premium pricing alone. Would be a bad situation to forget to turn off traction control and then have merge into fast moving traffic thinking you will be fine then having that trans issue happen (let alone does it have any impact / excessive wear/tear on the transaxle).

 

[ridered74]

Thanks for confirming the shifting issue w/ TC on isn't just me. Given the issue was pretty prominent w/ v11, one would think this would have been addressed given the amount of time that has passed since it was first identified. Not sure how many others are willing to test v17 to further confirm, but very understandable if give people don't want to do something that somewhat emulates the feeling of having just blown your transmission. Is your trans fluid "slightly overfilled"? :/

Part of the [theoretical] benefit of going with Livernois years ago seemed to be the a combination of the simplicity of a plug & play as well as the claimed reliability. And you sure as **** should get those things given the premium pricing alone. Would be a bad situation to forget to turn off traction control and then have merge into fast moving traffic thinking you will be fine then having that trans issue happen (let alone does it have any impact / excessive wear/tear on the transaxle).

Oh ya mine has been overfilled by half a quart for the last two years.

 

[SM105K]

Thanks for confirming the shifting issue w/ TC on isn't just me. Given the issue was pretty prominent w/ v11, one would think this would have been addressed given the amount of time that has passed since it was first identified. Not sure how many others are willing to test v17 to further confirm, but very understandable if give people don't want to do something that somewhat emulates the feeling of having just blown your transmission. Is your trans fluid "slightly overfilled"? :/

Part of the [theoretical] benefit of going with Livernois years ago seemed to be the a combination of the simplicity of a plug & play as well as the claimed reliability. And you sure as **** should get those things given the premium pricing alone. Would be a bad situation to forget to turn off traction control and then have merge into fast moving traffic thinking you will be fine then having that trans issue happen (let alone does it have any impact / excessive wear/tear on the transaxle).

Seems v17 is just added lipstick to the pig that was v11.