Livernois Tunes side effects

[larrylu]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I have not come across an answer in my browsings. I'm doing my homework before buying a tuner for my 2010 SHO and I like what I see when I look at Livernois. I'm not sure yet what I'm giving up with tunes that reduce or eliminate the "torque management" I know that if my SHO is not fully straightened out when I punch it, I can feel a lot of pulling to one side then back to the other. Is that the torque management? If I elect for a tune that reduces management, will I have more of the same issue, or a whole new level of bad manners? On another note while I love the performance of my car, I also love that on a trip with a light foot on the throttle, I can regularly get 29 plus MPG. How much impact on this light foot mileage capability can I expect when I use one of Livernois tunes? BTW this seems to be the best SHO forum I've found and the nicest also!

Thanks for any info

 

[thePUNISHER]

youre feeling torque steer.......a side effect of alot of power in a FWD vehicle..... i wouldnt think any tune tweaking would change this......

 

[lsdozer]

I have the livernois tunes. I have stage 2,3,4 and 4+. Torque management is basically just the computer softening the shifts to reduce the possibility of driveline breakage.

I sometimes like the hard shifts (no torque management) when I am WOT, but prefer a little softer shifts for daily driving. Even with the tunes that have torque management, it is still reduced from the factory settings.

The tunes are incredible. You wont be disappointed.

 

[somedude_001]

youre feeling torque steer.......a side effect of alot of power in a FWD vehicle..... i wouldnt think any tune tweaking would change this......

There is a difference between torque steer and loss of traction. What he is describing is loss of traction. When I had my 1994 turbo automatic SHO I had this issue in first and second gear. Of course my car being front wheel drive only it was much more substantial and could be a handful at times. If the jerking side to side requires a noticeable steering correction My guess would be you issue is your front tires slipping on the pavement. buy larger or stickier (or both!) tires and the issue will be less. Adding power will make this more noticeable.

I really do want to buy one of these when they come down in price some more.

 

[thePUNISHER]

There is a difference between torque steer and loss of traction. What he is describing is loss of traction. When I had my 1994 turbo automatic SHO I had this issue in first and second gear. Of course my car being front wheel drive only it was much more substantial and could be a handful at times. If the jerking side to side requires a noticeable steering correction My guess would be you issue is your front tires slipping on the pavement. buy larger or stickier (or both!) tires and the issue will be less. Adding power will make this more noticeable.

I really do want to buy one of these when they come down in price some more.

i had not considered loss of traction....i have to say none of the stock shos ive driven really spun all that much...but i did feel torque steer that would send you off the road......

 

[jcgrumman]

I have the livernois tunes. I have stage 2,3,4 and 4+. Torque management is basically just the computer softening the shifts to reduce the possibility of driveline breakage.

I often wondered how much of the torque management is for mechanical protection and how much is for driver/passenger comfort. A hard shift will result in higher peak loads whereas a softer shift creates its own wear issues.

james

 

[Retnavy]

I wasn't going to jump into this and just keep my trap shut.....BUT!
Any lowly 4-banger will give you torgue steer. You are feeling the same when you nail the throttle in the SHO. If you feel loss of traction, then you should be hearing the tires squeal like the old rear wheel high performance cars when burning rubber, just not so much. I can casue the torgue streer without wide open throttle starts. The tunes with torque management as stated in this thread simply put, is used to make wot shifts, or any shifts with management tunes softer on the transmission and drive line components. It will not eleminate torque steer! I run the 4+ tune with management and believe me the torque steer is still a handful!

 

[Scrming]

Livernois Tune main side effect.... That's easy! PERMAGRIN!!!! LOL

As others have pointed out Torque Management reduces power right before the car shifts... It does this by reducing timing advance and probably some other things....) You can see it in this data log from the stock tune. The light blue line is the RPMs and you can see where the car shifts from 1st to 2nd when the RPMs drop. But you will also notice the timing advance which is the purple line also drops, thereby reducing power:

Now here is with the Stage 4+ which has reduced Torque Management... notice that the timing advance (purple line) doesn't drop as much...

 

[Wardawg]

To the OP. If your concerned about your MPG you could always take a couple of minutes and reflash the car back to stock before a long trip.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

MPG doesn't suffer... If you don't drive differently than normal on a long trip, I have found my mileage has actually increased slightly with a tune.

 

[larrylu]

Thanks to all for the explanations and advice. I now think I have realistic expectations and a better understanding of what to expect from "torque management" reduction.

 

[Retnavy]

MPG doesn't suffer... If you don't drive differently than normal on a long trip, I have found my mileage has actually increased slightly with a tune.

Yep! I agree here. My MPG actually increased with the tune. 70-75 still gets me 28+ on the road.........

 

[qwiksilvertrav]

Yeah my MPG didn't suffer at all. Doing 60 mph I was averaging 31 mpg. Over the whole 250 mile trip with some stop and go driving I did 29 mpg!

 

[somedude_001]

View 2:15 for torque steer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58oTmtJ8hwM

tire slip. You can't hear the tires spinning but they are. the left one will spin causing the vehicle to turn slightly to one side transferring weight onto the slipping tire causing its traction to increase. At the same time weight/traction is decreasing from the other side causing tire slip... it is a vicious cycle. This whole thing happens really fast and that is why you see me fighting the steering to keep the car going straight down the road.
:35
http://www.streetfire.net/video/turbo-sho-before-the-fire_147183.htm

not trying to poke anyone with a stick with this. I don't have seat time in the new SHO like any of you guys. I am just wondering if a better tire will fix the issue in the OP

 

[Scrming]

View 2:15 for torque steer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58oTmtJ8hwM

tire slip. You can't hear the tires spinning but they are. the left one will spin causing the vehicle to turn slightly to one side transferring weight onto the slipping tire causing its traction to increase. At the same time weight/traction is decreasing from the other side causing tire slip... it is a vicious cycle. This whole thing happens really fast and that is why you see me fighting the steering to keep the car going straight down the road.
:35
http://www.streetfire.net/video/turbo-sho-before-the-fire_147183.htm

not trying to poke anyone with a stick with this. I don't have seat time in the new SHO like any of you guys. I am just wondering if a better tire will fix the issue in the OP

Heck, don't skip, watch the whole thing! That Focus RS is pretty dang cool!!! Open Track Day!!!

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

A tire change will help. I run drag radials on the front! The Conti DW's also work great when it's hot out. Get hard when it gets to 50 deg F. or less. Steve in Quebec runs Hankook Max performance tires and has no issues even when it's cold.

I have never had any torque steer issues with my Flex. And.. years ago with a Saab 900 Turbo... that's all I got... lots of torque steer!

 

[somedude_001]

your flex is gravitationally challenged bob

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

I occasionally see a green halo underneath... and hear weird music played by ET!

 

[LMSRick]

Sorry for the late reply, I thought I chimed in here, but it must have been my reply to your email I was thinking of.

Thank you,

Rick

 

[casperl878]

looking for extra torque and hp !!

hello, i have a 2010 taurus sho, and i changed the air filter so i have the air rad and flowmaster exhaust on it, but im looking for some ez simple power hp to add on if its a tuner or whatever tuner u suggest or have to give me some tips some pros and cons and where to get the best one for best price,
thanks alot guys for your help

anthony