Is it BAD that my engine turns against itself on startup sometimes??

[Artesia]

Weird question: When I start my car, sometimes I'll hear it REVERSE it's crank for a second, and OF COURSE will not start. But I mean...I just crank it again and it starts just fine. Someone said, "Timing Problem"...I said, "Electronic Ignition!" They said, "Hmmmmm...that's a problem"...I said, "uuuuhhh...YEAH!"

So, how the **** is it managing to back the engine up? And how the **** do you fix electronic ignition? Is it possible that it's getting the timing off?? I'm confused people...someone help please!

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- Brian C.
5576 Ragan Dr
The Colony, TX 75056
(972)625-2123
[email protected]

"We do not see things as they are...we see things as we are."

 

[Rich92forSHO]

That is wierd! My first guess is to check the plug wires to make sure everything is correct and not mixed up. The crank can't go backwards when the engine is running it can only be prevented from going up or down as fast by an out of sync firing sequence. Maybe the cylinder is being fired off way to early and it is just pushing on a combustion camber still in its compression phase way before the rod/crank connection is near its second 360 rotation. If combustion takes place in a cylinder it can only go down, if not, it wouldn't take long to rip it apart. Maybe your starter is in reverse.....just kidding! What if your starter is binding with the flywheel or something. Or it could be that the starter is engaging with a broken flywheel sproket and it is binding up giving you a jerking sensation? Or maybe the starter's electrical system is overloading and cutting out (but then were's the blown relay). That is a wierd problem.

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Rich Boyd and his ol' 92
"Give me that last hp!"
"If I can afford it!"

 

[Wildstar]

Lemme guess, it does this more often when hot than cold? Mine has been doing that for 11 years and 3 engines now. What year is yours?

 

[1stGenSHO]

The problem is with the timing.
My '90 did this when the Camshaft ID Sensor went out. It informs the system if the #1 cylinder is on the compression or exhaust stroke. When the sensor is dead, the system will "guess" until it gets it right.
The part is around $30 and is relatively easy to replace.

 

[SHOTIME]

You can adjust timing with the timing belt, But if it were off, I assume you wouldnt run at all.

The compression in the cylindercan still spin the crank back.

Not a great example but harley do it all the time

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Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
My Web Space
New England SHO Specialists

 

[Artesia]

Well, it's not a starter problem, I know that. Because when I do it, it will begin to try starting, turning the engine in the right direction. Then, suddenly it will **** back, reversing the engine! Weird, right? Not a starter problem...definately ignition or timing problem.

As for the occurance being more prevalent when the vehicle is hot as opposed to cold...I THINK you're right, but I actually was about to say the opposite...because I THINK it does it more often when the car's cold! BUT, if it DOES do it more often when the car's hot, there's a very valid reason for this. See, when the car is cold, combustion is greater, because the air is colder and more dense. At this point, it's much easier to start the vehicle right from the first turn of the key. Why? Because you're getting more combustion to start the engine easier. It doesn't have time to mess up and reverse on you because it starts to quickly.

Now, you said, "3 engines later"?????? Please tell me you haven't blown 3 engines!! If you have this problem and you've blown 3 engines, I'm gonna' freakin' find out what this problem is REAL quick and fix it, cause I'm NOT gonna' blow my engine anytime soon. It's got another 100,000 miles of life left in it at least, and I'll be damned if some little problem like this is gonna' blow my engine. I'll raise **** and put the car into submission before that happens. hehehe

I HAVE AN ADDITION TO THE INFORMATION PROVIDED INITIALLY ON THIS PROBLEM!!! BE AWARE OF THIS INFO, IT MAY HELP!!!

Okay, when I go to start, and it DOES start...sometimes it will jump up to almost 2000 rpms immediately and drop back down a little, which is what it should do if the timing is advanced correctly.

Then other times, I go to start it and it starts...but it hesitates down low at 500 rpms...sits there stuttering for about 2 or 3 seconds, then it'll shoot up to 2000 rpms approximately, then fall a little.

The other times I start it and it sits at 500 for a few seconds, then simply raises to idle speed because the cold start isn't in effect because the car is warm already.

Does this help any???

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- Brian C.
5576 Ragan Dr
The Colony, TX 75056
(972)625-2123
[email protected]

"We do not see things as they are...we see things as we are."

 

[Wildstar]

Don't panic about the 3 engine comment. Original lasted 140+K miles. And lets just say that the SHO specialists that rebuilt it, didn't do things quite right. The crankshaft broke. So, it was rebuilt again. Mostly by me. So far, so good. Anybody in LSSHOC can tell you it isn't exactly slow . I made that comment only to indicate that mine has had most every component changed, some more than once, and it still does it. The only thing that has never been replaced, is the computer. It's a B9B, and I think it is the problem. Not any of the sensors, or the timing belt, etc. I notice you live in The Colony. I'm in Fort Worth, so it may just be the gravitational field in this area!

 

[Artesia]

Wildstar,

Hey, did you see my post on the Dallas SHO Club I'm starting? I've already got something like 7 people wanting to join, or more...I've lost count. I haven't started signing people up and keeping track of them yet, but I have put out the word. I'm trying to build a SHO site for our area before I start the signup. BUT...I think I'll just start the sign up very soon to get everyone involved, because we're about to start going to events as of mid march.

This is not a club that'll only last for a few months then be gone, I assure you. We have so many events planned, and lots of meetings that everyone will be interested and will keep coming. And I like to keep everyone updated and help people out with money if that's a problem too, because I like everyone to be able to participate. Also, I will have a club account/fund that the guys can chip in for every once in a while, and the money raised will help the guys that are short on cash and can't make it to events.

Just to give you an idea of what events we have planned...next month in Feb, 15-17th, we're going to Ennis with the Probe Club Friday night. We're dynoing with the Probe Club Saturday at 1pm, and we're probably hanging out after that or on Sunday at Speed Zone.

So it should be a cool weekend. If we get more than 15 people total dynoing, the rate will be $40 for 3 runs. If less than 15, it'll be $50 for 3 runs.

Mid March we're going to start participating at the BMW autocross out at Mineral Wells once a month. It generally will happen in the middle of every month around the 15th. Usually the second weekend in each month, or middle weekend...whatever. I'll keep everyone informed. The price is VERY cheap. $25 for 8 runs. Not bad at all.

We will also attend SoloII events if anyone cares to go for that type of autocross. It's an okay price. I can't remember what it is off hand. It's fun, just a smaller course than Mineral Wells...but Mineral Wells is the longest autocross course in the nation, supposedly. It's a very fast course...lots of fun. I've seen some cars hit almost 100 on the long straight in the back.

In May we're all going to the Hallet Racing Circuit road race track in Oaklahoma!!!! It's going to KICK @$$!!! It's only $130!!! That's a great price for having the track rented out all day. It'll be the probe club, the BMW club, the SHO club, and the Prelude Club. Lots of great guys I know are coming in those groups. Lots of fun! You'll also find some other random cars in that group of people too. Rx7s, S2000s, One or two Cameros and some other odds and ends.

So, as you can see, we'll never be bored or have a lack of events. And every few months we'll all get together for a big weekend of fun.

Email me if you like and let me know if you wanna' join. We want as many participating members as possible. It's free membership. We'll ONLY take money when someone else is running short but wants to participate, or when we're all raising money for an event to pay for it. That's all. Get back to me soon, man. Later!

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- Brian C.
5576 Ragan Dr
The Colony, TX 75056
(972)625-2123
[email protected]

"We do not see things as they are...we see things as we are."

 

[Wildstar]

I am always interested in SHO gatherings. As past president of the SHOPlex chapter of the SHO Registry(SHOPlex was a precursor to LSSHOC)I can feel for you starting up a new one. I will be interested in all that you mentioned. I did Hallet at the SHO Club convention this past summer and it is a cool track. It was to have been partially repaved right after we were there, and it needed it. Keep me, and everyone else, informed.

Kerby 'Two cranks" Haltom

 

[sdpatt]

The cylinder identification (CID) sensor (a.k.a. camshaft position sensor) has the job to identify to the EEC when the number one cylinder is at top dead center so that the EEC/DIS can synchronize the crankshaft position sensor's pulses with the actual cylinder firing sequence. If the CID sensor is not providing a good signal, the EEC tries the six different combinations of cylinder order. Some of these combinations will cause the spark to fire with the piston a long way from the top of the cylinder. That may be the source of your counter-rotation, but some of the combinations could also cause very hard starting or severe backfiring.


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Scott

1991, 254K miles, glass hood, police grill, SVO shifter, Catz fogs,
K&N, 73mm MAF, Superchip, PP Y-pipe, Borla cat-back, 190 lph pump
Eibach/Tokico/polyurethane, Alum SFB, SS front/rear strut braces,
16x7.5" Moda R1, 225/55ZR16 Bridgestone RE730, -1 deg camber x 4,
6 disc CD, Class II hitch, Silver award at SHOklahoma Car Show

 

[Artesia]

Good point. I may check into that further. Where is the crank angle sensor on our car located? (CID)

- Brian C.

------------------
- Brian C.
5576 Ragan Dr
The Colony, TX 75056
(972)625-2123
[email protected]

"We do not see things as they are...we see things as we are."

 

[sdpatt]

The "crank angle sensor" as you refer to it is the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) located at the 1 o'clock position above the crankshaft timing belt pulley. See the photo below of the CPS being gapped from its sensor ring. This sensor only knows that there are three ignition events that need to happen each revolution of the crankshaft.

The cylinder identification sensor is mounted on the front end of the rear bank exhaust camshaft (just to the left of the timing belt cover near the center of the photo below). This sensor identifies when the number one piston reaches top dead center and the intake and exhaust valves are both closed on the number one cylinder. This sensor's purpose is to synchronize the three events per revolution sensed by the CPS with the position of the various cylinder's pistons. The DIS module, with the EEC's ignition timing assistance, then doles out the current to the various coils in the coil pack in the correct sequence to keep the engine spinning in the right direction. In the old days, that was the job of the distributor, but in the SHO, that is the job of the distributorless ignition system (DIS) module with the help of the CID, CPS and EEC.

Scott

 

[Artesia]

Thanks. I will see if I can identify it in the future if I have further problems with this. I'm going to change out the IAB first though. Thanks.

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- Brian C.
5576 Ragan Dr
The Colony, TX 75056
(972)625-2123
[email protected]

"We do not see things as they are...we see things as we are."