intake tuning and whipple super charger

[fred79]

is the tuned intake still use full on F/I car.
I was thinking that with the increased velocity of the incoming air the reflections maybe off and nolonger usefull and I wondered why no one has built thier own intake yet.
what about a whipple supercharger has any one used one yet on a sho. with a new intake and a whipp;e a more compact super charger setup may be possible.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: fred79 ]</small>

 

[AutoSHO]

Huh?

 

[Hack]

Todd Cook's Pikes Peak car has a custom intake. Also, those twin turbo sand cars have the butterflies removed from their secondaries. In the SHO, there is too much mass to overcome. The dual stage intake is pretty much a requirement. It would be interesting to see how a boosted SHO ran with the butterflies removed, but I do not think the results would be positive. As far as a Whipplecharger, I have been waiting for someone to anounce that they are trying it. What with multiple turbo projects, a large number of centrifugal SCs, and even someone working on a roots type blower, it is only a matter of time.

 

[Lance Cheney]

I had them (Whipple) send me some specs. The unit is not super compact, and I'm not sure where the best place to put it is. I think you'd be stuck with a setup similar to the FPS superchargers, with a shaft running across the front of the front valve cover/head area.

IIRC, the smaller blower (1600) would probably be ok up to ~360-380HP. That's too small for my motor, but might be acceptable for a near-stock SHO. The case size is ~10x5x6", then you have to add on the snout and pulley setup. The 2300 I would need is significantly bigger (14x5.5x8")

I think if you had one of these you could change the intake around since you're likely going to get boost at anything over 2000 RPM anyway.

-Lance

 

[Hack]

Granted I have not done any serious research on these, but doesn't the Whipple normally replace your "upper" intake like a standard roots type install? Obviously, the SHO intake is not an upper/lower design. I just figured that to install one on a SHO you would want to fabricate a mounting "plate" that would bolt to the heads in place of the intake runners, and then bolt the Whipple to that. I wonder if there would be clearance under a cowl hood?....

 

[Lance Cheney]

yellowSHO:
Granted I have not done any serious research on these, but doesn't the Whipple normally replace your "upper" intake like a standard roots type install? Obviously, the SHO intake is not an upper/lower design. I just figured that to install one on a SHO you would want to fabricate a mounting "plate" that would bolt to the heads in place of the intake runners, and then bolt the Whipple to that. I wonder if there would be clearance under a cowl hood?....

That's one way to do it, but it isn't required.

For instance, the T-Bird SC uses an Eaton Roots-type blower but the blower output goes to an intercooler and then back to the intake manifold. In such a case the blower could be mounted anywhere.

I would prefer to keep the stock intake and use a screw-type supercharger with intercooler. Pull air through the MAF, into the blower, through the intercooler, and then to the throttle body.

The cowl hood would give you more room. Not sure how exactly you'd put the thing together (there are options, but none are really pretty -- there isn't much space above this). It's not like a GTP or T-Bird SC where you have a pushrod motor with shorter heads.

I believe the vehicle-specific kits they sell do generally replace the entire intake.

-Lance

 

[fred79]

maybe it could be mounted like the fps with a bar running across then intake throught the fender and maf then blow into the intercooler and turn the intake around on the motor and intake from the front of the engine. would that be a better designe with the intercooler.

also why dont the big pushrod engine require a inter cooler they just suck in outside air and blow into the engine?

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: fred79 ]</small>

 

[Hack]

Just for informations sake, there is someone doing an Eaton Roots type blower install on an SHO utilizing the factory intake. I beleive they posted here in regards to the project at one time, but received some negative feedback. There was an ongoing thread over on superhighoutput.com. I just did a quick search for it(the thread) and could not find it. At any rate, it was an interesting setup.

*EDIT*
found the thread
http://www.superhighoutput.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=810&hl=supercharger&st=0

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: yellowSHO ]</small>

 

[Lance Cheney]

Hmmm. Very interesting setup. I don't see in the pictures where exactly the blower is. I guess i need to read the whole thing.

An M90 might be good for 400hp, but only if you get upgraded parts. It's about the same as the 1600 Whipplecharger, except less efficient and more proven.

I think if you wanted to setup something with an intercooler, putting it where the battery is would not be a bad idea. You set it up sort of like the Powerdyne blowers -- intake from passenger side, exit to an intercooler in front of the radiator, then pull the exit of the intercooler into the intake. Pretty 'easy', so long as you can get everything to fit...

If it weren't for the fact that I looked at the 2300 and went "holy cow, that's big", and the fact that I already have a 300+ HP engine (so a 1600 isn't going to help much), it might be something worth trying out.

For any of you with such an inclination, put together a mock-up (cardboard box or whatnot) in about the same size as a 1600AR (you can get the size specs off the whipplecharger site) and see just how many (or few!) places it will fit.

-Lance

 

[luigisho]

The roots blower is installed where the a/c pulley/compressor used to be. Running off the acc. belt. The post is still running over there with some pics.
I've definitely seen a Whipple setup using a shaft drive. If you have fab skills you could mount almost anything if you're creative enough.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: luigisho ]</small>

 

[DHMag]

ive had dreams of a custom fabbed intake with a Whipple sitting on top of it, and a 10" cowl hood .

 

[Lance Cheney]

DHMag:
ive had dreams of a custom fabbed intake with a Whipple sitting on top of it, and a 10" cowl hood .

And a camera on the front bumper so you can see where you're going! eek! ;-) Kindof loses the sleeper effect though.

The ABS controller is kindof in the way on my car. I think once you start decontenting the engine bay on an '89 you'd have room in a few spots even for the bigger blower.

Now if only the power I already have didn't scare me at the track... (T-hill, etc. - not drag strip)

-Lance

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Lance Cheney ]</small>

 

[Aspect]

This product gave me ideas. Cheaper alternative to the vortec. But less HP over all.

Comptech SCd TL

 

[luigisho]

Hey, that's the pic. I had been thinking of!

 

[illSHOyou]

yellowSHO:
I beleive they posted here in regards to the project at one time, but received some negative feedback.

I dont believe that for one moment... Anybody get my punn? LOL

 

[flosho]

illSHOyou:

yellowSHO:
I beleive they posted here in regards to the project at one time, but received some negative feedback.

I dont believe that for one moment... Anybody get my punn? LOL

I get it, I get it!!

cuz you're right away pulling the BS flag on him, and not givin him a chance and saying its undoable... haha

looks like this guy over at sho.com is a pioneer.. my rolemodel.

 

[Lance Cheney]

Aspect:
This product gave me ideas. Cheaper alternative to the vortec. But less HP over all.

Comptech SCd TL

</strong>

Yeah, Comptech is definitely pushing this as a maintenance-free we-won't-blow-up-your-engine mod. They're using the next-to-smallest roots blower that Magnuson sells -- the MP62 (good for ~350HP, tops), and pushing 5psi (about the blower's limit probably). The article says 230hp, 193 tq, but I assume that is either whp or it's not the blower #, although I also remember an article about a Jackson Racing kit for an accord that changed the 1/4 mile by all of ~0.4 seconds and 3-4 mph. This has got to be nearly that bad (14.7 @ 97 -- they should be doing low 15s stock, right?)

That's certainly not a lot of torque for a s/c 3L.

If you were doing a SHO you'd probably want to up it to a MP90, but then you're getting a larger, harder-to-package blower (which is likely why they used the MP62 on the Accord). But the idea is a nice one (and putting the blower in a similar spot on the SHO seems like the only real option).

Just my $0.02.

-Lance

 

[James Downing]

fred79:
is the tuned intake still use full on F/I car.
I was thinking that with the increased velocity of the incoming air the reflections maybe off and nolonger usefull and I wondered why no one has built thier own intake yet.
what about a whipple supercharger has any one used one yet on a sho. with a new intake and a whipp;e a more compact super charger setup may be possible.

As for the original question... the speed of the pressure waves inside the intake travel at the speed of sound IIRC. The speed of sound is proportional to the density of the material in which it is traveling. Increasing the pressure in the intake also increases the density of the air. Now, I do not know where on the RPM the tuned intake has effect, but if I knew the RPM, I could throw some numbers around, and let you know what RPM it would be at, with the added pressure in the intake. Im thinking the added pressure will actually speed up the velocity of the pressure waves, therefore making the pressure waves come sooner. And with the added velocity of the air, the magnitude of the pressure waves would increase as well. So, in theory, the tuned intake will become MORE effective with FI.

 

[Toolman]

Intake seems to work fine on my car It is EH though, with BBB's.

 

[James Downing]

The intake wave-pressure tuning is affected very minutely by diameter of the runner. Length is everything.