Installed 2 CV shafts and learned something

[sdpatt]

I haven't been around the Forum much lately since my work has kept me very busy and me and my family have been sick. I am also preparing for an extended (4+ weeks) business trip to Honolulu (darn) [Later: I never did get to go on that trip]. I don't like this time of year much (cold and short days), but we had 4" of real snow last night and this morning, making a snowman with my 3 year old was a real treat.

Well, at least I got to work on the SHO today. I had been hearing the telltale sounds of worn CV joints when accelerating through tight turns. It wasn't up to making the "clacking" noise yet, but I did hear a soft "clunk-clunk-clunk."

I purchased the A1Cardone 60-2031 and 60-2034 remanufactured CV shaft assemblies from O'Reilly's. These had a great appearance and included new CV joint bearings, grease packing and inner and outer boots. They also included what appeared to be chrome ABS rings. I did have to swap the old wheel bearing seals to the new shafts, but otherwise, they were a complete, plug in replacement. An awesome deal for $59.99 per side.

I also replaced the driver side MTX output shaft seal since it had a slow leak following the clutch and MTX service I had performed 2 years ago. This $2.99 Timken 3622S seal from AutoZone was a bit tougher removing and installing with the transaxle still installed in the car, but it was accessble.

After replacing both CV shafts and topping off the transaxle with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid, I noticed that the transaxle output shaft seal on the driver side was leaking more than the previous seal had been. The problem that caused the both seals to leak was the method I used to install them.

The metal framed seals are a very tight fit into the transaxle. I had used a rubber mallet to install the seals when the trans cases were separated two years ago. I used a 2' section of soft wood 2"x2" to tap the seal in place through the wheel well access. I noticed that the metal frame had been deformed in such a way that the seal would not contact the shaft as designed.

The seals should be installed with an appropriately sized tool to apply force only to the outer edge of the seal. I will now take another new seal to Home Depot so that I can measure and buy the correct diameter and length of PVC pipe to properly install the seal without deforming the frame. That should cost me a few bucks at Home Depot and another couple hours of labor. Lesson learned.

Another lesson learned was the effect of the new CV shafts on the behavior of the drivetrain. Two years ago when I replaced the clutch and resurfaced the flywheel, I was dismayed to find that the slight driveline shudder during clutch engagement was still present. After replacing the 283,180 mile old CV shafts, the shudder is gone and the driveline feels much younger and tighter.

There was a noticeable amount of play (as much as 2mm in rotation on the driver side - the one that was making the clunking noises) in the bearings of the old CV shafts that allowed the driveline pulsations to exhibit themselves just like a grabby clutch. I wish I had spent the $120 and 4 hours of effort to install the remanufactured CV shafts many miles ago. And since they have a lifetime warranty, I won't have to pay for it again.

 

[luigisho]

Good info. Scott. Would you mind posting the correct diameter pvc piece to use when you get it measured up? Search function is only as good as the posts.

 

[91taurisho]

Thanks Scott!!! I'm about to start replacing both my seals and I'm glad you told me this now so I don't screw them up! thumb
Like luigisho said, could you post that size up?

 

[SHO_Driver]

Yeah, I tried using a really large socket to seat the seal but it was not easy as it kept popping out of place because of the tight fit. I find that damage usually occurs when removing a driveshaft and the circlip grazes the seal causing leaks.

 

[AutoSHO]

When I replaced mine I used a hole saw to recess a small area on a 2x4. It only contacted the seal at the edge and kept it from deforming. I am not 100% positive, but I think it was a 2" holesaw. I did not go all thr way through, I just made an approximately .25" deep pocket.

 

[SHOtimer]

Would CV shafts/joints, wear out on an ATX also? I'm wondering if this would be a part that should be replaced around 155k (in my case), or if it is a case by case replacement interval.

Doug

 

[Rockledge]

sdpatt:
I don't like this time of year much (cold and short days), but we had 4" of real snow last night and this morning. making a snowman with my 3 year old was a treat this morning.

Does this mean Richardson, Texas is part of the "rust belt" now?

Seriously, the info on the CV joint installation, and especially the seals, is very useful. It reminds me how I used the wrong size PVC pipe (close, but no cigar apparantly) to try and install the first of my cam seals, and I ended up with a very lousy seal, and also a lesson learned, inasmuch as I had to order (and wait for) another batch of seals and then redo it.

 

[sdpatt]

No rust since they don't use salt here. Aren't we lucky?

Yes, the CV joints on an ATX will eventually wear out too since they have the same job to transfer torque through wheels that can turn corners and move up and down. Any CV joints will wear out prematurely if the boots are torn and not replaced promptly along with a cleaning and regreasing of the CV joint.

The pipe section I used was a coupling for a 2" (ID) PVC pipe. The outside diameter was 2-3/4". In one side of the coupling I inserted a reducer from the 2" to 1" (ID) PVC pipe. This gave a more solid surface to strike. If the seal were not so hard to press into the transaxle, installing a 2' length of 1" PVC into the reducer would have made the tool that much more helpful.

As it was, I damaged another seal using the tool before I realized that the fit was just too tight. The seals had just been bought at a 70 degree AutoZone store. The transaxle was in a garage at approximately 50 degrees. Hmmmmm. I put the seal into the freezer for about 5 minutes and then squirted the metal portion with a can of air turned upside down to freeze it even farther. The seal was much easier to install evenly and without excessive force after the chilling.

I am now able to disassemble the suspension and remove the driver side axle in as little as 15 minutes. Properly installing the seal took much longer. It took only another 15 minutes to reassemble and properly torque the lower control arm (ball joint) (18mm, 40-55 lb-ft), tie rod end (18 or 19mm, 25-35 lb-ft), sway bar link (18mm, 35-48 lb-ft), hub nut (30mm, 180-200 lb-ft), ABS sensor (10mm, 40-60 lb-in), brake caliper locator pins (Torx 40 (for Gen I), 18-25 lb-ft) and lug nuts (80-105 lb-ft).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed this time.

<small>[ February 15, 2004, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

I would also like to add that I was able to buy the carrier shaft center support bearing for $17.99 at O'Reilly Auto Parts. The bearing is rugged looking with 10mm balls and a plastic race. The bearing was listed on O'Reilly's web site as BCA 206F. The box had the Federal Mogul name and the 206F part number.

After I removed the passenger side CV shaft, I decided I didn't want to risk removing the carrier shaft and the carrier shaft bearing. The passenger side axle seal was not leaking and I didn't want to risk damaging it by removing the shaft.

The center support bearing looks to be pressed into the bearing mount and I was short on time and the possible need to have a machine press to install it. (Has anyone replaced the bearing in the center support?). Realizing that the original bearing was good for 283,180 miles, I figured I would test its durability since I now know that I can get a replacement.

 

[FamilySHO]

The entire carrier shaft is Ford obselete and there were a couple of threads a while back of people trying to find replacements. The rubber holding the bearing had worn and the bearing itself detached. At the time the only solution was to find a used carrier shaft. If you've found a bearing replacement that can be pressed into the the existing shaft it would be very good news.

 

[luigisho]

Good stuff as usual Scott. thumb

 

[rangerj]

Ladies and gentlemen,

You have all found innovative ways to drive in the axel shaft seals.

Just in case anyone is interested there is a set of "Bearing Race and Seal Drivers". The drivers are different sizes, beveled on one side for replacing races, and flat on the other side for replacing seals. The set comes with a handle that the different size drivers attach to with a bolt.

Eastwoods sells a set for about $30, but I would bet that Harbhor Frieght has a set for about half that. It really does make it easier to install seals and races squarly the first time. rangerj
Snow in Texas?

 

[AREA 91]

I would also like to add that I was able to buy the carrier shaft center support bearing for $17.99 at O'Reilly Auto Parts. The bearing is rugged looking with 10mm balls and a plastic race. The bearing was listed on O'Reilly's web site as BCA 206F. The box had the Federal Mogul name and the 206F part number.

After I removed the passenger side CV shaft, I decided I didn't want to risk removing the carrier shaft and the carrier shaft bearing. The passenger side axle seal was not leaking and I didn't want to risk damaging it by removing the shaft.

The center support bearing looks to be pressed into the bearing mount and I was short on time and the possible need to have a machine press to install it. (Has anyone replaced the bearing in the center support?). Realizing that the original bearing was good for 283,180 miles, I figured I would test its durability since I now know that I can get a replacement.

BUMP from the dead!!! Is this a correct replacement bearing for the carrier shaft????:wave:

 

[Eric VerValin]

I would also like to add that I was able to buy the carrier shaft center support bearing for $17.99 at O'Reilly Auto Parts. The bearing is rugged looking with 10mm balls and a plastic race. The bearing was listed on O'Reilly's web site as BCA 206F. The box had the Federal Mogul name and the 206F part number.

After I removed the passenger side CV shaft, I decided I didn't want to risk removing the carrier shaft and the carrier shaft bearing. The passenger side axle seal was not leaking and I didn't want to risk damaging it by removing the shaft.

The center support bearing looks to be pressed into the bearing mount and I was short on time and the possible need to have a machine press to install it. (Has anyone replaced the bearing in the center support?). Realizing that the original bearing was good for 283,180 miles, I figured I would test its durability since I now know that I can get a replacement.

So this is the bearing on their site I asked about a while ago huh? Here.
Good to know... I was wondering about that. I also just did my CV's, and those seals were a PITA even with the tranny loose on the floor.

 

[TREpaNaTion]

When I replaced the Inner Drive Shaft seal I used a Hole Saw and a block of wood as well. I wrecked 3 seals doing it the wrong way and days of waiting for the ordered new ones to come in and decided that i might as well get 3 of them just in case for 5 bucks a peice.

Took one of the new seals up to a bargain shop in town and got the hole saw bit for 59 cents and it worked straight away. But most definitely a good write up.

 

[gmorrell]

Ladies and gentlemen,

You have all found innovative ways to drive in the axel shaft seals.

For installing the axle seals, I use a 4 X 4 cut flat on the chop saw and a 2 pound sledge. Works every time! One smack, and they're seated: Square and undamaged. Been doing it that way before a lot of you knew what a SHO was...

I wipe a bit of oil or ATF around the outside of the seal to improve, err, ***********.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

Im glad i read this, I probably would have screwed up my axle seals trying to get the min Does anyone know if harbor freight has the right size tool?

 

[Jim Merriman]

Transaxle Wheel Seal Repair Kit

I had to repair my transaxle wheel seals on my '91 Plus as well. Like many of you, taking out the axles in preparation of the a clutch job, Fidenza Flywheel and Spec Stage 2 clutch, likely was the root cause of the post clutch job transaxle leaks from the wheel seals, because they didn't leak before the clutch job! Darn! The passenger side went fairly straight forward. I naturally thought when 1 side fails, the other side will soon follow. And unfortunately, I decided to do the drivers side as well and messed up the first seal replacement on the drivers side. Oh well. I'm using a wheel seal kit from Auto Zone that you can "rent". You buy it, and get your $53 back when you return it. The Auto Zone kit part number is 27119 and is labeled "OEM Bearing Master Driver Set". There are approximately 8 different sizes of tapered AL pieces that can be mated with a AL handle. Though I have used a 2X4 with a tapered round AL piece measuring 63 mm and the handle attached to the round AL piece. To improve the installation process, I am going to get either a PVC dowel or steel tubing to slide over the 6" handle and use that as an extension for a firmer, and more stable platform in which to press the wheel seal into the transaxle. The 63 mm tapered piece is a perfect fit to the Motorcraft wheel seal.

The wheel seals I'm using are Motorcraft part #E1FZ-1S177A. I paid $12.57 ea. including 6% sales tax at a local Ford dealer; list is $14.82 plus sales tax.

Bear in mind, a successful repair is only as good as the prep. Be sure to clean any residual red colored sealer from the transaxle surface left from the removal of old seal. Even a small bit of old material may cause a leak with the new seal in place. I hope this info helps someone, because this isn't the easiest of jobs to do on a creeper. The issue is the lack of elbow and tool space while working under the car on a creeper.

 

[SHOtimer]

I first saw this thread title and I thought "wow, I remember when sdpatt did this last time about 5 years ago" - little did I know this was the same thread....

Might have been a good idea to start a new thread....

Doug

 

[Racer X]

I find the best tool to use to seat a new axle seal is the large flat washer that comes in the subframe recall kit.