I want a SHO, but ...

[Coronach]

So, the answer to "Should I buy a SHO?" on SHOforums is going to be heavily biased towards "yes," but hear me out. I need to make sure this ticks the right boxes before I buy.

I love cars with power (check). I need a car with AWD, due to the fact that I live out in the sticks, my driveway is a gravel hillside, and when we get snow I still have to go to work (check). I pretty much have to run 87 octane gas ( ... uh ...).

That last one is the problem. For reasons that will take a while to explain (I can go into it, if you like, but it's boring), we get our gas from a big gravity, feed tank. This fuels all of our vehicles (3), the quads, the lawn mowers and the emergency generator. None of them are optimized for premium gas, and it would pretty much be an all-or-nothing affair to switch from 87 to premium.

I know the SHO can run on 87, but how much performance am I going to be leaving on the table by feeding it the cheap stuff, and would it be better to go with a normally aspirated AWD car instead? This thing will be a daily driver for me, and day in day out it will get fed 87. If I ever fill up from a pump, I have no problem feeding it some good stuff, but that rarely happens.

So, what do you think? Still worth getting? Or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Raging Bull]

Hey mike I’m not bias I’m the kinda guy I get what I want ( not in the spoiled sense either haha ) it’s a nice car , big , comfortable , awd yes it will perform better on the premium fuel. However it still is a twin turbo and will have power. I bought mine from the dealer with 87 octane it was very quick still. You can get a 87 perfomance tune also, I have one, have not tryed it yet so I can’t comment on the power to gain but I’m sure it will add more power to the car. It’s from LMS ! So u know it works. Your whole question is really up to you. If you like it BUY IT , if you don’t then DONT ! Good luck man on whatever u decide.

 

[luigisho]

Do you already have a 4wd truck? That's what I'd be looking at for a gravel hillside.

 

[SHOinVa]

IMHO
Mike, I got to be honest with you, it sounds like you would be better off with a truck or maybe a Subaru or something similar. I say this for three reasons,
- Yes its AWD but its really more of a paved road AWD, its not really a dirt road AWD.
-Its not cheap to maintain and there are lots of bells an whistles but all those nice things can an do break. Most of the people who use it as a daily have it on lease or like new with a warranty. Being a turbo it requires you stay pretty regular on all your fluid changes etc,
- Only having 87 is not a huge deal it will run OK and you can get a 87 tune BUT you are going to leave a lot of performance on the table. Don't get me wrong I love my car BUT I only use it for road trips and special occasions, for me its just seems a little nice to beat on everyday.
BUT that is just my opinion, my last bit of advice ALWAYS Run the numbers what can you afford an more importantly what can you afford to fix an maintain
-Have a great week.
Charlie/

 

[Coronach]

1. Yes, I do already have a 4x4 truck. I get that the AWD is not as capable as true 4WD, and the only non-paved area that this car would ever go on is my driveway (about 900' long, and steep in one part). My wife's minivan (AWD Toyota Sienna) is able to make it up and down just fine in the snow, so I'm sure the SHO would be just as capable. My current ride (a 06 Dodge Charger RWD) is fine as well, just not in the winter. That car gets put up for the winter, and my truck gets used as my daily driver from Nov until the spring thaw.

2. It has been determined by Commander-in-Chief House that my next car would be AWD, which is actually great, as it means that I can daily-drive it all year long. Using the truck as my DD in the winter sucks for a couple of reasons- I have to carry a bunch of gear for work and the truck has no place to put it besides in the cab where the kids sit, my wife likes to drive my truck when the weather is bad, and my commute is about 30 miles one way which sucks because the truck guzzles gas. So a SHO fits the bill perfectly for this (AWD, faaaaaaaast for daddy, and big enough to cram the kids in the back and haul all of my crap).

3. I understand the maintenance issues. I'm really **** about keeping up with fluids, tire rotations, belts and hoses and plugs. This is how I've been able to keep an 06 Charger going for this long with zero problems (knock on wood).

Here is a specific question: how easy is it to flip between tunes? Say I got a Livernois 87 Octane tune on it, but I had an opportunity to fill up a nearly empty tank with 93? Could I flip the tune really easily to have a tank or two worth of fun, and then go back to the 87 tune when I filled back up with regular? Also, how forgiving are those tunes if I f*** it up and get the wrong gas for it for a short while? Is it a case of "it will run like crap" or a case of "you might detonate your engine"?

 

[luigisho]

These cars don't seem that durable to run the wrong tune and not worry about it. AWD with twin turbo means even with regular maintenance you have alot more that can go wrong. If you get something with a warranty then you may want to forgo the tune until that is over..and I would recommend maybe an extended Ford warranty. Reliable AWD subaru, daddy wants fun SHO, but it will likely cost you more than purchase and routine maintenance. This isn't a tried and true RWD platform that are generally more durable in design.

 

[SHOdded]

You can ask Matt at Gearhead Tuning to tune your SHO. He can write the tune to adjust to the octane of the fuel on the fly. Most tunes/tuners cannot or will not. So that would eliminate that variable. But yes, generally tunes should be matched to fuel. Fuel octane can be > than the octane the tune was written for, just not less. I don't think it will blow up as the knock sensor data will in short order cut the timing if octane is too low for what is required by the tune. That's how these engines work. Yes, there is a possibility of KABOOM, but usually very very low if you use a reputable tuner. And forced induction engines are always more prone to rearranging their universe than naturally aspirated engines. Just the nature of the beast.

You would be wise to carry the tuner/tunes and the 2 bar MAP with you at all times

 

[SHOinVa]

1. Yes, I do already have a 4x4 truck. I get that the AWD is not as capable as true 4WD

LMAO You asked a question, I gave my answer, LOL If you want a SHO buy a SHO brother, BUT given the parameters you gave me, I don't think its the best choice for a year round all weather daily driver. She is a nice car, but for a lot of people she is more of a luxury weekend car then daily driver. I say a lot of people because everything is relative, somewhere, someone drives there Ferrari to work. Its all about the MATH, if you can afford the car, an afford the maintenance, etc then enjoy. But for what its worth a water pump will cost about $3000 to replace if you can find someone you trust to do it. Replacing one turbo around $2000 but may as well do the pair. Changing tunes is easy but you should run at least one tank of 93 through her before you switch over. Anyway its just my opinion I know its hard to do the sensible thing.
C/

 

[Coronach]

Naw, it's cool, I wasn't annoyed. I was just explaining why the truck is not a great solution to the daily driver problem. The Subaru option is something I have considered. I just like the idea of me driving a SHO better than me driving an Outback

Good info on the tuner/tunes. If I go this route, I will probably go with an 87 tune (or the variable octane tune), and see how much I like it, at least until I get to the end of the factory warranty (looking for a lease return). If it is miserable enough, I could always source a second tank and stock two types of gas. I guess.

 

[SHOdded]

I would suggest adding E but do not know how it does when 87 is the starting point. You can add ACES IV for some octane boost also, but again, would have to see what the tuner can wring out of it re: potential.

 

[tech10002]

So, the answer to "Should I buy a SHO?" on SHOforums is going to be heavily biased towards "yes," but hear me out. I need to make sure this ticks the right boxes before I buy.

I love cars with power (check). I need a car with AWD, due to the fact that I live out in the sticks, my driveway is a gravel hillside, and when we get snow I still have to go to work (check). I pretty much have to run 87 octane gas ( ... uh ...).

That last one is the problem. For reasons that will take a while to explain (I can go into it, if you like, but it's boring), we get our gas from a big gravity, feed tank. This fuels all of our vehicles (3), the quads, the lawn mowers and the emergency generator. None of them are optimized for premium gas, and it would pretty much be an all-or-nothing affair to switch from 87 to premium.

I know the SHO can run on 87, but how much performance am I going to be leaving on the table by feeding it the cheap stuff, and would it be better to go with a normally aspirated AWD car instead? This thing will be a daily driver for me, and day in day out it will get fed 87. If I ever fill up from a pump, I have no problem feeding it some good stuff, but that rarely happens.

So, what do you think? Still worth getting? Or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks,

Mike

Have you considered an Ecoboost Flex, MKT, or an Explorer Sport? My wife has an Ecoboost Flex and it runs fine on regular. She’s too cheap to put premium in it. It’s almost as quick as my SHO and has more room and ground clearance—ditto on the MKT and Explorer. The SHO runs fine on regular too. It’s really not that much slower. You just lose some of the responsiveness. Neither my sho nor her Flex are tuned, so this is from a totally stock perspective.

 

[Coronach]

yeah, I'm looking for a sedan, not an SUV or a crossover. I drive an Exploder at work, though. Good SUV.

 

[tech10002]

yeah, I'm looking for a sedan, not an SUV or a crossover. I drive an Exploder at work, though. Good SUV.

I’m not an suv fan either. They’re just too pitchy. Just thought one may be more suited to your rural driveway. We have the same issues you have. Ours is a steep gravel driveway, so forget anything but 4 wheel drive in the winter. My wife loves trucks and suvs. I just see them as appliances—though I will admit the Flex is very nice. It’s got 90% of the SHO’s performance in handling and acceleration. Don’t think you’ll be terribly disappointed in the SHO with regular fuel. It’s still plenty quick.

 

[Jeff2017]

87 octane isn't that big of an issue. It might cost you 15HP. In the winter you might not even notice the difference. Is there some reason you cannot fill up at a regular gas station? Are you so far out in the boonies that there are none? Just curious.

 

[brucelinc]

According to a Ford engineer familiar with the 3.5 ecoboost, the difference between 87 and 93 is 5% loss of power with the 87. Jeff's estimate of 15 HP is very close.

 

[Coronach]

OK, that's not worth writing home about. I'd prefer to keep those 15 horses, but not with the gymanistics it would take to run 93.

OK, for the long boring explanation:

We don't have a lot of gas options close, the nearest is about 7 miles in the wrong direction for my commute, but that's not the driving factor. The main reason that we get gas from a gravity feed tank is economics. My wife travels weekly for work, and buys her own plane tickets. We get reimbursed, but we have to buy them ourselves first. So, we buy Southwest gift cards at the local Kroger, $500 at a pop, which translates into 2,000 fuel points (sometimes 4,000). I then use the fuel points to get $1 (sometimes $2) off of gas, 35 gallons at a time. The gas is loaded into the gravity feed tank. This may not sound like much, but I have (literally) never paid full price for gas for ... ****, probaby a decade, except for fill-ups when we travel. And almost every one of those 35 gallons is $1 cheaper than the going rate. Sometimes $2. It adds up.

 

[shaker281]

I have experienced spark knock running 87 octane when the temp gets over 70 degrees and under load. Maybe it has something to do with carbon build up, but it has happened since around 60K miles. I now run 93 all the time (untuned). Just my experience.

 

[SHOdded]

Get a borescope and check out those intake valves

 

[yowen2000]

I know the SHO can run on 87, but how much performance am I going to be leaving on the table by feeding it the cheap stuff, and would it be better to go with a normally aspirated AWD car instead?

One thing you could do is to install a methanol injection kit, this raises the octane level at higher boost levels. Exactly when you would want it, to prevent knock. It also has the happy side-effect of adding more power safely. Or at any rate, that's my basic understanding of it.

This would be best if paired with a tune, I've read that without a tune a meth kit will actually reduce power (but still increase safe running of the engine).

All that being said, I know plenty of people do run their SHO at 87. I ran mine at 87 for about a year, I'm currently running a tune though and have opted to run 89 Midgrade.

 

[Foran]

I've run mine with 87 and it's not a huge difference. Gas mileage seems to be down about 2 mpg.