Help on hard/no start, please?

[Jim Steere]

Little background info...I posted to the "performance forum" a couple of days ago:I joined this forum to assist in a "SHO V6 into (believe it or not)Mercedes-Benz" (a '76 Euro-spec SL roadster)engine swap for a customer. I'm getting ready to remove the "donor" motor; it's a 59K mile '93 engine. I'm a painter/panelbeater/fabricator/restorer by trade, specializing in Mercedes-Benz...and an (old) hot-rodder. I'm familiar with the Ford EEC, understand the complexity of what I'm tearing into (see www.msdra.com/Fordzuki.htm), but would welcome any input/information.
Here's how it began: This "donor" I've purchased is a really "hard" roll. Runs good....after you get it running....no codes/check engine light, but starts REALLY hard. Floods...acts like an old car with a cracked dist. cap (crossfiring) or the timing advanced way too far...it will crank, and when it fires it sometimes "stalls" the starter. Soooo....I replaced the CID. No back firing now....but still no start. EEC only gives code 111, KOEO tests works fine, MIL/CEL light is "on" while cranking. The few times it fires is smells Godawful rich/flooded. I'd like to make it run "right" before I remove it from the car....it would be a lot easier to get running in it's new environment if I could install it knowing it was "right" when I pulled it.

BTW. My hat's off to you guys that mod/maintain these (really, really cool) engines in their natural (ie: Taurus) environment. The miserable, frustrating, knuckle-bustin', hand-gouging, tight-quarters environment reminds me of a FE-motored '67 Mustang I had back when I had hair.

Thanks a ton for ANY input.

Jim Steere
Everything Automotive
Crystal, MI
www.usedbenzparts.com

 

[Jim Steere]

If you're interested in seeing a SHO that went for a REALLY wild ride...http://www.msdra.com/fordcedes.htm

Don't laugh at the high-tech battery mount.

Jim

 

[DubbaDooz]

i'm sorry that i can't help you with your starting issue (although you'd think i'd be an expert seeing as my SHO selectively starts, as well ) but let me know when you have some spare time to put a 3.2 with an mtx into a miata--something i've wanted to do on multiple occasions thumbs_u

 

[srfdude]

You are obviously well "car-versed", so what have you missed? Sounds like a fuel system problem. One possibility, the injectors were disturbed/broken by the crash. When you go through the hard-start routine, pull the plugs (I know) and see if they are all wet, or some of them. Did you check the fuel pressure at the Schroeder valve? Should be ~39 lbs. Is there oil in the plug wells, etc? Another thought: were the plug wires disturbed, maybe taken off the coil and reinstalled improperly?
Mike

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: srfdude ]</small>

 

[Jim Steere]

Fuel pressure's ok....checked that....and the plug wires appear undisturbed, and I DID have the @#&?*$! thing running a couple of times for an extended period of time. I'm beginning to suspect "out of time"...possibly it may have made the timing belt slip when the CID was bad....because it misfired/spun back several times HARD.

Or am I barkin' up the wrong tree?

Jim

 

[srfdude]

Do you have the Helms manual? Very helpful. As for the timing belt, easy to check. PUll off the top timing cover, and there are marks on the cam pulleys that should line up vertically when the engine is at TDC per the crank. I didn't notice the mileage on the car; if its nearing 100K it is overdue for the "60K" which inc. the timing belt and valve shim adjustment. Of course it would be much easier to do all that when its out of the car. Also the crank sensor (cps) is notorious; can be changed when the front is apart. When its cranking does the tach read? What did you do between the time it was running till it wouldn't run any more?
Mike

 

[Jim Steere]

srfdude:
Do you have the Helms manual? Very helpful. Also the crank sensor (cps) is notorious; can be changed when the front is apart. When its cranking does the tach read? What did you do between the time it was running till it wouldn't run any more?
Mike

Yep....I've got the Helms book, a Chiltons, and the OE FoMoCo one. I (from reading posts) assume the CPS is ok....tach reads while cranking. (Belt) timing is "on"....and the baffling part is that I haven't done ANYTHING to it other than replace the CPS. This is beginin' to get irrttating. All the times it has started...it's started terribly hard.

Hmmmmm.

Jim

 

[BlackMagik]

Jim,

I just went through this....my car turned out to have a very clogged converter. Try tapping on the converters to see if they rattle (you know the drill). If that's it I'm sure you know how to go about fixing the problem. Good luck!!!!

 

[Jim Steere]

I'm done with it for the day.....but...couple things I'm pondering along with the exhaust. Once upon a time, I saw a motor get hideously flooded & gas-washed (albeit back when I had hair, and engines had distributors, carburators, and points) to the extent tht it took oil squirted in the cylinders to restore compression, spun over, and a new set of plugs. When I was checking for spark (plugs out & grounded) I did notice that the spark was going from the center electrode to the side as much or more than it was going from electrode-to-electrode like it's supposed to. I've always felt like you couldn't flood a (modern, FI) motor bad enought to ruin the plugs...but maybe I've proved myself wrong. Tomorrow....new platinum plugs....and if that doesn't work I guess the next logical step is to "test" the converters by *professionally* remooving them with a SawZall. Won't need 'em in this conversion, anyway.

Any ideas/suggestions are GREATLY welcomed...

Jim