Gear oil in MTX, I'm thinking no.

[Shoaz]

Call me out on this but I'm against ATF, stock or non-stock MT, ATF turns dark quicker between changes, so I can only assume that it runs hotter.

If your ATF is turning black quickly it's not from heat, it's from dirt. Somehow particulates are getting in your tranny, either through the vents or somewhere else, or there's an accumulation of sludge in the tranny that the fluid is picking up.

I ran Mobil 1 ATF in the Pumpkin with a Quaife, and it used to get hot enough that I frequently ran a pump and tranny cooler. The fluid lasted a LONG time under hot, high-load conditions and never, that I recall, turned black. I'd change it when I had a significant overheating event and it was usually still nice, bright red. I did run a filter on the vent, which probably helped keep the dirt out.

The SHO MTX was designed to use ATF, and Quaifes like it, too. Many, if not most, high-performance gearboxes these days still specify ATF and that's with a lot more torque than a SHO makes, even modded. I think one needs a pretty compelling reason to use something else. If your tranny isn't working with ATF I think that's a sign that something is wrong with it.

 

[jayro]

The SHO MTX was designed to use ATF, and Quaifes like it, too. Many, if not most, high-performance gearboxes these days still specify ATF and that's with a lot more torque than a SHO makes, even modded. I think one needs a pretty compelling reason to use something else. If your tranny isn't working with ATF I think that's a sign that something is wrong with it.

Thanks for the info. My trans currently shifts okay, no grinding etc. It goes into gear fine. In the interest of getting it to shift as smoothly as possible I was looking into fluid options. When I was told gear oil could perform better I figured it was worth getting some info on.

From some of my research it appears that I would do best sticking with a quality ATF fluid. Also that if the trans is grinding then try a thicker fluid, if it is notchy then try a thinner one.

 

[SHOtime2511]

IIRC Honda recommends 10-30 motor oil if your in a pinch in place of Honda MTF.
That gives you an idea of the thickness of Honda MTF.

 

[shomethe$$$]

If your ATF is turning black quickly it's not from heat, it's from dirt. Somehow particulates are getting in your tranny, either through the vents or somewhere else, or there's an accumulation of sludge in the tranny that the fluid is picking up.

I ran Mobil 1 ATF in the Pumpkin with a Quaife, and it used to get hot enough that I frequently ran a pump and tranny cooler. The fluid lasted a LONG time under hot, high-load conditions and never, that I recall, turned black. I'd change it when I had a significant overheating event and it was usually still nice, bright red. I did run a filter on the vent, which probably helped keep the dirt out.

The SHO MTX was designed to use ATF, and Quaifes like it, too. Many, if not most, high-performance gearboxes these days still specify ATF and that's with a lot more torque than a SHO makes, even modded. I think one needs a pretty compelling reason to use something else. If your tranny isn't working with ATF I think that's a sign that something is wrong with it.

Grab your popcorn, I'm not trying to go against you but I want to get to the bottom of this, but my car does not like ATF, the darkening disappeared but at the same time I know ATF has a lot more cleaning agents than MTF, I agree with you that many applications use ATF but for high performance tranny, I can only find Tremec. Show me which torsen bias diff uses ATF, rear or front? I can only think of SRT4 but not DexIII and leads to a whole lot of other issues.

Doing more research convinces me even more not to use even the Honda stuff or ATF, not an MTXIV but..

Article No.
00-1-9

01/10/00

TRANSAXLE - MTX-75 - NEW TRANSAXLE FLUID - SERVICE TIP

FORD:
1995-2000 CONTOUR

MERCURY:
1995-2000 COUGAR, MYSTIQUE

ISSUE
Several internal changes have been implemented on the MTX-75 transaxle to improve shift efforts. These changes have resulted in the need for a new synthetic transmission fluid for ALL service operations.

ACTION
Use only the new fluid when performing any service on Cougars and Contour/Mystiques built after January 1, 2000. Refer to the following text for additional details.

A new synthetic fluid is required when topping off the fluid level or whenever the transmission is being repaired or replaced in service in vehicles built after January 1, 2000. This new fluid (XT-M5-QS (1 L/quart)) can easily be identified by its "honey" color as opposed to the reddish fluid used previously.

The new synthetic fluid (XT-M5-QS (1 L/quart)) is fully compatible with earlier (1995-2000 model year) Transaxles and fluid. It is recommended that this new synthetic fluid (XT-M5-QS (1 L/quart)) be used exclusively in all model year MTX-75 transaxles when filling a fully drained unit, or when topping off a low fluid level.

PART NUMBER PART NAMEXT-M5-QS Transaxle Fluid (1 L/Quart)

Data Sheet


http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican... Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid.pdf


Even the mustang guys using XT-11-QDC dual clutch trans fluid switched to XT-M5-QS to cure getrag cold shifting problems. However, Tremec stills recommends ATF.

Here is the list of things Terry Haines recommends for that transmission:
"DO NOT USE ATF OR EP type oils in ANY MTX-75*
*Friction mod is not needed....unless 'you' have an issue with the ****...Stay away from it if you can*

*MY Choice of lubes in decending order:-

1. Motorcraft 'Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid # XT-M5-QS ('honey')

2. Royal Purple 'Syncromax'

3. AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Motor Oil

4. (General) A Full Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Engine oil...which includes:-

Mobil Delvac 1, 5w40 (full synthetic, a reformulated version of Mobil 1 which is intended for diesel engines)
Chevron Delo 400, 5w40 (full synthetic version)
Shell Rotella T (full synthetic version, not to be confused with Rotella SB synthetic blend or regular Rotella T non-synthetic)"

As for gear oil

Terry Haines says "and no,a gear oil is NOT good in the MTX75...Why are so many fools hooked on 'Gear Oils' over here...GL spec oil usually go in rear ends as in RWD due to hypoid bevel cut gears NOT in FWD MTXs...I'll say it one more time ,even my own MTX75 in my Jaguar X type,AWD uses Ford Honey not gear oil in the trans....The pic is the RP catalog showing Syncromax matches the ford honey part # and the Ford spec.I have NEVER seen any spec sheet that calls for a GL rated gear oil in an MTX75 OK...If some dork puts it in I want to see the spec sheet that say it's OK......doesn't exist!!! "

Although is slightly off here because the spec sheet says GL-4.

 

[SHOZ123]

OFF topic but of the two Asian Non Ford FWD manuals I had one had ATX fluid US market only, 75w85 Asian market and the other has 75w90 worldwide.

 

[zak]

Shockproof would be only suited to a supercharged summer driven SHO, or a track car of some kind. It is viscous enough especially when cold to slow down synchronizer speed changes, resulting in notchy or difficult shifting. That same higher viscosity helps spread the contact loading at the gear contact points, which is why I suspect yamahaSHO is using it in a supercharged application.

I use Redline ATF D4, it has better temperature capabilities then Redline ATF, at the expense of some, but not overly annoying, cold weather shifting difficulties. Daily year around driver, carbon fiber paper lined synchros, autocross car, some open tracking, Quaife but no cooler, no power adders.

 

[SHOZ123]

That's why the came out with the super lightweight Shockproof. Now in three flavors.

 

[jedhead]

I have used Redline D4 in Quaife equipped tranny since 1997 when I installed the quiafe

Bob

 

[ItsAnAdventure]

I use 600W gear **** in my 1929 Model A! No synchros and no mods AZ ATF in the '91 track car.

 

[RonPorter]

I use 600W gear **** in my 1929 Model A! No synchros and no mods AZ ATF in the '91 track car.

Oddly enough, I've been waiting for you to chime in on this!!

 

[Shoaz]

Grab your popcorn, I'm not trying to go against you but I want to get to the bottom of this, but my car does not like ATF, the darkening disappeared but at the same time I know ATF has a lot more cleaning agents than MTF, I agree with you that many applications use ATF but for high performance tranny, I can only find Tremec. Show me which torsen bias diff uses ATF, rear or front? I can only think of SRT4 but not DexIII and leads to a whole lot of other issues.

Nissan GT-R uses ATF everywhere, I believe. At least that's what came out when our local tuner took one apart.

But that's moot, because the SHO is not a GT-R. It has an MTX-IV for which the manufacturer recommends ATF and which many, many folks have used for more than twenty years, even in heavily beaten-on track cars, with good success.

That doesn't mean you have to use it, but I think it means there's not much reason not to.