gathering turbo information.

[SHOtime2511]

im starting to build my turbo SHO soon,ive got all the parts now so i just need to put it all togeather.Now im trying to gather some information.
Im using Tims old turbo pipes,a Turbonetics turbo,a Tial external waistgate,ebay IC setup,blitz BOV,walbro 190,accel 48lb injectors,80mm MAF,Tweecer that i don't know how to use,innovate wideband.

the engine is a low mile stock 3.2L i plan to run 6-8psi boost.
please feel free to give your input and suggestions.
PICTURES OF SETUPS WOULD BE GREAT!!

where are you turbo guys getting your lines and hardware from?
from what i understand i need to "T" where the oil pressure sending unit is?
what about the return line? is rubber ok or should i use a steel braided line?
what sizes should be used?
are you all running some kind of vacuum block for the BOV and waistgate?
does anyone have a good basic tune for a similar setup to help me get off the ground?
the Tweecer has been kicking my ass.

 

[SHO_DOODmorrris]

im starting to build my turbo SHO soon,ive got all the parts now so i just need to put it all togeather.Now im trying to gather some information.
Im using Tims old turbo pipes,a Turbonetics turbo,a Tial external waistgate,ebay IC setup,blitz BOV,walbro 190,accel 48lb injectors,80mm MAF,Tweecer that i don't know how to use,innovate wideband.

the engine is a low mile stock 3.2L i plan to run 6-8psi boost.
please feel free to give your input and suggestions.
PICTURES OF SETUPS WOULD BE GREAT!!

where are you turbo guys getting your lines and hardware from?
from what i understand i need to "T" where the oil pressure sending unit is?
what about the return line? is rubber ok or should i use a steel braided line?
what sizes should be used?
are you all running some kind of vacuum block for the BOV and waistgate?
does anyone have a good basic tune for a similar setup to help me get off the ground?
the Tweecer has been kicking my ass.

lines an hardware you could order online from jegs or summit, buy themall at once to save on shipping or find a local performance store.

if you are planning to use the oil filter relocation kit you can use the second output on the block with a biushing and a -4 steel braided feed line.

return should be no less than a -10 braided line

do not use rubber use stainless braided everywhere you can, you will thank me later.

-4 for feed -10 (minimum) for drain.

no, the manifold vacuum port for the stock FPR i use for my waste gate and the one for cruise control i use for my BOV.

welcome to the club. just keep playing with it and you will figure it out. in the sealevel spark adder page, pull a bit of timing at the higher rpm's (4000+) and change your injector slopes to accommodate the 48 lb injectors (i.e 48/90 i don't know what the slopes should be for the 48 lb injectors but im sure someone will chime in. i have the 47.7's)

any more questions just shoot away.

 

[SHOtime2511]

should i be using a FPR being my SHO is a 90 with the 2 speed pump?

 

[SHO_DOODmorrris]

hmm... i cant say for sure but think it would be a good idea to purchase josh's kit. i bought all my stuff (thats in joshes kit) from a local performance shop and i saved like 10 bucks which i ended up spending in gas for the amount of times i had to go back and get different parts. he is giving our community a **** of a deal. besides, that fpr increases fuel pressure by one psi for every pound of boost in the system so it makes tuning easier. you dont need the super high flow kit just the basic FPR kit.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

should i be using a FPR being my SHO is a 90 with the 2 speed pump?

I would go for the FPR. Its a great price and it is adjustable. I went with it for the 89. I like the fact of knowing that I WILL NOT have a problem w/ the cpu trying to compensate for it leaning out and that crap from the stock fpr.

For vacuum sources u can use the one on the front tank for the old FPR reference line. Another spot is the capped ****** on the vacuum T, right near the master cylinder area. Theres 4 nips only 3 used. I used this one for my gauge. If u need more, u can just cut in "T's" for anything else.

And yes if u can, go for the SS lines anywhere. espically IMO with turbo b/c of the heat/crapped spaces.

I found this place for AN fitting and other FI parts. They have some of those PIA to find parts.

http://www.racepartsolutions.com/

 

[92sho16]

where are you turbo guys getting your lines and hardware from?
from what i understand i need to "T" where the oil pressure sending unit is?
what about the return line? is rubber ok or should i use a steel braided line?
what sizes should be used?
are you all running some kind of vacuum block for the BOV and waistgate?
does anyone have a good basic tune for a similar setup to help me get off the ground?
the Tweecer has been kicking my ass.

Lines I got from jegs and summit.

Oil sandwich block from ebay. ( this is where i get my oil supply and oil pres sending unit, if your running toolmans hot pipes you more than likely will have to block off the stock sending unit because there is a shortage on space back there when running the down pipe through there.)

Return line as stated -10an min.

No vacuum block but stay away from the two ports near the throttle body( valve cover vent one and the one next to it)

I could send you the tune i have now but depending on how much boost you run you might not have to pull as much timing I am.

 

[92sho16]

..
do not use rubber use stainless braided everywhere you can, you will thank me later.

...

You do know that underneath that stainless is rubber line right?

 

[gmail]

You do know that underneath that stainless is rubber line right?

i think he does but the benefit of stainless line will come to you if you do a little search on stainless braided line vs plain rubber.


as for the tuning part only thing you can do it study study and more study.

its fairly simple one you get the general idea.
go to shonuts website in the tweecer section and he has a tune he used before on his blower car.
i forget his slopes on there but they are right about where you wanna be for a base might even fit you quite well since i didnt rear your post completely.

 

[SHOtime2511]

Oil sandwich block from ebay. ( this is where i get my oil supply and oil pres sending unit, if your running toolmans hot pipes you more than likely will have to block off the stock sending unit because there is a shortage on space back there when running the down pipe through there.)

oh i was wondering about the oil sandwich blocks.
it seems like if that will bolt up to a SHO it would simplify things for me.
what app. did you buy it for,a Mustang?
was it a direct bolt up?

 

[leerocketmike]

You do know that underneath that stainless is rubber line right?

Its actually not rubber but is nylon... I have a oil relocation kit I'd sell you that comes with all SS lines and has a T to a 4an fitting, just pm me. Here are some pics hope it helps.
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/SN850559.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/oilpickup.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/oilrelocation.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/SN850560.jpg

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

Don't overcomplicate it Brian. Bring it down to my shop and we'll take care of it. I don't do too much tuning but Jeremie has experience with other cars and should be able to adapt, especially since he has tuned our turbo SHO with a SAFCII. We should have everthing done in a couple days maybe sooner if I have enough briaded hose and fittings in stock. I also have a guy that makes custom high pressure rubber and stainless hoses with fittings if you want to go that route for the oil inlet and outlet.

 

[92sho16]

Its actually not rubber but is nylon... I have a oil relocation kit I'd sell you that comes with all SS lines and has a T to a 4an fitting, just pm me. Here are some pics hope it helps.
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/SN850559.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/oilpickup.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/oilrelocation.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r458/MikeGSki/SN850560.jpg

Not all line is, alot of it is still rubber. Obviously stainless will hold better under pressure but i guess my point was that it isnt any more heat resistive than regular rubber line.

 

[gmorrell]

For the turbo drain line, you might want to consider using -10 (5/8" ID) Stainless braided line with a Teflon liner, instead of a rubber liner, similar to this one by Stinger Performance.

Teflon line is better able to cope with the temperatures in the turbo environment, and it isn't chemically affected by oil, so it won't swell or break down. One of the members here lost an engine due to a failed supercharger oil drain line, this really is a mission-critical component.

Make sure the oil drain line dumps into the oil pan above the oil level in the sump, otherwise it may cause oil to back up in the turbo CHRA and damage the shaft oil seals.

There are plenty of vendors on the 'net who will make these lines for you, any length you desire, with crimped on hose ends of your choice.

 

[Toolman]

Turbo SHO's are overrated...

 

[frosho]

Who are you and what have you done with Tim?

 

[delta448]

Im using Tims old turbo pipes,a Turbonetics turbo,a Tial external waistgate,ebay IC setup,blitz BOV,walbro 190,accel 48lb injectors,80mm MAF,Tweecer that i don't know how to use,innovate wideband.

the engine is a low mile stock 3.2L i plan to run 6-8psi boost.
please feel free to give your input and suggestions.

Hi, new guy here. I don't have much SHO specific knowledge, but I have a fair amount of experience with turbo systems. I just wanted to throw a couple of ideas out for you to briefly consider.

First, I'd ditch the 190lph pump and get something slightly more robust, the 255 walbro pumps cost the same as the 190s. The reason I suggest this is because of my next suggestion, which is to consider running E85 fuel. I'm not sure how much this has been discussed on this forum, but it has been used quite a bit already in the turbo Mitsubishi and Subaru circles.

E85, the relatively high stock SHO compression, combined with a turbocharger, is a great recipe for power. E85 resists knock like 105 octane gasoline and cools intake air very effectively, so much so that some import tuners are running it without any intercooler or are running as much as 10psi more boost than they were capable of tuning for no knock with 93 octane.

Tuning for E85 is a bit technical though and I'm not familiar with SHO tuning solutions enough yet to get detailed on the issues there. But basically, injector size has to be roughly 1/3 larger than what the ECU/PCM (whatever SHO guys call it) compensates for when running reg. gas. This is due to the stoichometric burn ratio of the high ethanol content fuel. The reward for burning more fuel with the same amount of air is increased power over straight gas, along with the denser air made possible by the cooling effects of the alcohol. Couple that together with much better knock resistance and you can see why an engine with higher compression and forced induction would benefit.

Maybe you only want to run 6-8psi for your power goal, but I'll bet that once you get a taste of that you're going to really start getting the itch to turn the wick up with higher boost levels.

Also, if you haven't already got a turbo, you might want to check out some of the used Holset turbos available on eBay. Holsets are used for a lot of commercial applications and are also found on cummins powered dodge trucks. They spool very quick when used with engines that burn anything but diesel and are built very solidly.

 

[SuperchargedSHOguy]

Hi, new guy here. I don't have much SHO specific knowledge, but I have a fair amount of experience with turbo systems. I just wanted to throw a couple of ideas out for you to briefly consider.

First, I'd ditch the 190lph pump and get something slightly more robust, the 255 walbro pumps cost the same as the 190s. The reason I suggest this is because of my next suggestion, which is to consider running E85 fuel. I'm not sure how much this has been discussed on this forum, but it has been used quite a bit already in the turbo Mitsubishi and Subaru circles.

E85, the relatively high stock SHO compression, combined with a turbocharger, is a great recipe for power. E85 resists knock like 105 octane gasoline and cools intake air very effectively, so much so that some import tuners are running it without any intercooler or are running as much as 10psi more boost than they were capable of tuning for no knock with 93 octane.

Tuning for E85 is a bit technical though and I'm not familiar with SHO tuning solutions enough yet to get detailed on the issues there. But basically, injector size has to be roughly 1/3 larger than what the ECU/PCM (whatever SHO guys call it) compensates for when running reg. gas. This is due to the stoichometric burn ratio of the high ethanol content fuel. The reward for burning more fuel with the same amount of air is increased power over straight gas, along with the denser air made possible by the cooling effects of the alcohol. Couple that together with much better knock resistance and you can see why an engine with higher compression and forced induction would benefit.

Maybe you only want to run 6-8psi for your power goal, but I'll bet that once you get a taste of that you're going to really start getting the itch to turn the wick up with higher boost levels.

Also, if you haven't already got a turbo, you might want to check out some of the used Holset turbos available on eBay. Holsets are used for a lot of commercial applications and are also found on cummins powered dodge trucks. They spool very quick when used with engines that burn anything but diesel and are built very solidly.

E85 is not readily available around here FYI...

Also a Holset turbo is not exactly a good match for the SHO engine. I can't name a turbo off a diesel truck that is a good match...picking a turbo is not a random choice, it takes some researching. You should really look into toolmans post about building a turbocharged SHO and understand the engines cans and cants and the turbo of your choice compressor map.

 

[kzoosho]

E85 is not readily available around here FYI...

Also a Holset turbo is not exactly a good match for the SHO engine. I can't name a turbo off a diesel truck that is a good match...picking a turbo is not a random choice, it takes some researching. You should really look into toolmans post about building a turbocharged SHO and understand the engines cans and cants and the turbo of your choice compressor map.

Which holset turbo? Trust me there is a holset that would work perfect with a sho motor out there you just have to do a little research.

 

[Sho Amo]

hx35

 

[delta448]

E85 is not readily available around here FYI...

Also a Holset turbo is not exactly a good match for the SHO engine. I can't name a turbo off a diesel truck that is a good match...picking a turbo is not a random choice, it takes some researching. You should really look into toolmans post about building a turbocharged SHO and understand the engines cans and cants and the turbo of your choice compressor map.

Can you link me to Toolman's post that you're referring to?

The matter of being a good match or not depends only on what the end user thinks is acceptable as far as spool speed and power potential. It's purely the individual's opinion. Also, I am fully capable of reading a compressor map. The compressor map really only matches efficiency with a PR and flow level, and tell you when you'll see damaging surge or overspeed. The turbine wheel and housing really are just as important to matching a turbo to an engine and you can't get any info on that from a compressor map.

There are aftermarket turbine housings readily available for HX35 and HX40 turbos (albeit designed as bolt-ons for smaller engines), and that will make a large difference in both spool time and maximum engine airflow. However, with 3.2L of displacement one of the larger snails would produce impressive results with only a little lag time added when used in the factory Holset turbine housing or a large divided aftermarket housing.

I'm coming over to SHO community from the DSM world where Holsets have been used extensively. DSM + Holset results-only thread found here. Several HX35 and HX40 using DSM owners are reporting low 11 second timeslips trapping around 125-135mph. There are a few who've gone much further and one in particular that I remember has made 653awhp on a dynojet at higher boost levels on a 2.3L 4G63 stroker engine.

The thing that makes Holset turbos so great is their cheap price combined with durability and superior wheel technology. When you're designing a turbo to work with a lazy exhaust diesel and spool right off idle, you have to make the most of the turbine wheel responsiveness while trying not to choke the large displacement engine with a restrictive turbine flow. Those attributes make these turbos absolute performers on higher revving and hotter burning gas engines.

I've never run a Holset on any of my personal cars, but I have seen firsthand the impressive results some are having with them. Take it or leave it, my post above was only for consideration, not to be taken as gospel. I'll now graciously concede to the members here that have extensive SHO specific experience.