Gates vs Motorcraft Water Pump

[Shadow351]

Hello All,
I think I need to replace the Oil Pump (See https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/oil-pressure-warning-at-idle.136523/) and I figure the water pump is on borrowed time, so I plan to change that while I'm in there. So I was going through making a parts list on the Ford Parts site and the water pump, (listed as PW-495 for both the SMPI and Ecoboost 3.5L), is $120 from Ford. I checked Rock Auto, which lists PW-538 for the SMPI 3.5L, but there is no Motorcraft pump listed for the Ecoboost. On the PW-538 info page, it lists PW-495 as an alternate\OEM part number. RA also has a Gates pump for the Ecoboost for $25 (the Gates pump for the SMPI 3.5L is a different part number and is $47).

Is there actually a difference between the water pumps on the SMPI and the Ecoboost? Is the Gates pump for the Ecoboost any good? I've heard good things about gates water pumps, but the $25 price makes me a little leery. Should I just pay the extra $100 for the listed Motorcraft part from Ford? Or will the PW-538 listed for the SMPI 3.5L (priced at $67) work on my SHO?

Thanks
-Brad

 

[glockcoma]

I would stick with the Motorcraft, this is not a job you want to do twice considering the difficulty.

 

[SilverSH0]

I would also stick with Motorcraft. IMO, spending an extra $100 is worth being sure you're getting a good pump. I wouldn't want to spend the time replacing the pump twice or worse....having the Gates pump fail and ruin the motor. I don't know a single thing about the Gate pump to know if it's good or bad. But like you, the cheap price would be enough to scare me away on an item like that.

 

[Shadow351]

I actually stumbled across a Motorcraft water pump with the correct part number on Amazon for $67, so I will get that one. Does anyone lnow if the pump is actually different between the ecoboost and NA 3.5L?

 

[Devin]

Isn't the MC pump the one that fails and kills engines?

 

[SHOdded]

Yes, usually after 100K miles or more. Just like engine oil, the coolant and pump are more stressed with city/special operating conditions type driving, so probably somewhere between 100K and 150K the pump can fail. With highway driving/normal conditions, it SHOULD easily last 150K and beyond. We have many Edge vehicles for example well north of 150K, some well north of 200K, where the original pump is going strong. Regular coolant change (say every 5/60) is a big help, as coolant has additives that get used up, just like engine oil.

 

[SilverSH0]

Isn't the MC pump the one that fails and kills engines?

I don't think that's a fair implication you're making. MC pumps are the ones that fail and **** engines simply because they're the ones that are installed from the factory. Water pumps are going to fail regardless of brand, that's what happens to them. I don't know a single water pump manufacturer that can make a pump reliably last past 150k miles. The engine failure part is simply based on bad design choices from Ford and there's no way to get around that.

My statement is that I would have more trust in the MC reaching 150k miles vs the Gates pump. Everyone does their own thing, but I would be a lot more comfortable trusting my engine on a pump with a well known reliability limit vs on that's not well known.

 

[Devin]

I don't think that's a fair implication you're making. MC pumps are the ones that fail and **** engines simply because they're the ones that are installed from the factory. Water pumps are going to fail regardless of brand, that's what happens to them. I don't know a single water pump manufacturer that can make a pump reliably last past 150k miles. The engine failure part is simply based on bad design choices from Ford and there's no way to get around that.

My statement is that I would have more trust in the MC reaching 150k miles vs the Gates pump. Everyone does their own thing, but I would be a lot more comfortable trusting my engine on a pump with a well known reliability limit vs on that's not well known.

Its a good point that the most common component failure would be OEM, because at some point every OEM part would fail over time, because statistics. However, my question is entirely fair as we don't know if the mean time between failures of the Motorcraft pumps are longer than Gates.

At worst it was a throwaway question because no one can really bring any data to it. There is no real reason to trust Ford's Motorcraft water pumps more than a third party. Unless they use proprietary tech beyond the shaft, impeller, and housing setup that have been around for damn near as long as cars have been water cooled.

I've owned Fords far too long to be a fanboy anymore.

 

[SHOdded]

As many have experienced, with late model Fords, there is either no aftermarket, or Ford offerings are the best offerings regardless of others' "lifetime warranty" claims. Yeah, I do not want to test the lifetime warranty claim on any part that requires significant labor to R&R. Most people are not DIY'ing such jobs either, so the OOP costs are prohibitive.

 

[Shadow351]

The number of "Lifetime Warranty" Ball joints I installed on my old F150 was ridiculous, but at the same time the Subaru guys swear by Gates Water pumps and timing sets.

I opted for the Motorcraft pump, and even though I ordered a PW-495, I was sent a PW-538. I asked the guy behind the parts counter at the dealer if it was the right part, and another guy in the back confirmed the 538 is an updated part number. The 538 bolted on without issue, so it does appear the Ecoboost and NA 3.5L use the same water pump. I hope to get it back together this weekend.

 

[SilverSH0]

The number of "Lifetime Warranty" Ball joints I installed on my old F150 was ridiculous, but at the same time the Subaru guys swear by Gates Water pumps and timing sets.

I opted for the Motorcraft pump, and even though I ordered a PW-495, I was sent a PW-538. I asked the guy behind the parts counter at the dealer if it was the right part, and another guy in the back confirmed the 538 is an updated part number. The 538 bolted on without issue, so it does appear the Ecoboost and NA 3.5L use the same water pump. I hope to get it back together this weekend.View attachment 5510

Ahh, someone else who actually does their own work instead of taking it to the shop. One a scale of 1-10 *** difficult is it to get that timing cover off and work inside with the water pump? With winter coming up I'm contemplating doing some preventative early maintenance when I have nothing to do this winter.

 

[Shadow351]

It's not the worst repair I've had to do, but it isn't easy. I'd say about a 7. Once the front cover is unbolted, it is mildly difficult to maneuver it out. After it is out of the way, there is a good bit of room to work on the chains & pumps. Getting the cover back in is more difficult because the RTV wants to get on the VVT housings and phasers. I suggest you pickup a good manual if you don't have one already, I got the Ford Dealer Repair manuals on ebay for $45. Oh and whatever you do, don't twist off an engine mount bolt, that mess took me about 4 days to fix. I didn't have to remove the engine mount studs from the bracket that bolts to the front of the engine, which is good because the ETorx head of one broke off when I tried to remove it. I decided to try to remove the engine isolator without removing the studs, and i was able to.

I didn't quite get it back together tonight, I'm having trouble getting the Right blow off valve vent line clamp in place, doesn't seem to be enough room for vise grips on those spring clamps, and I cant hold it with needle nose pliers and push the hose on at the same time.