Eaton M90 supercharger Question

[Sho Amo]

Don't thread cap because your upset that me saying your $1600 is expensive when most SHO's are cheaper than that cost. This guys actually trying to get this done and he's looking for info, not peoples opinions on what else works, what they think is cheaper, or posting completely off topic because they are upset.

I know that you have no idea what im talking about so i understand why you posted that. Blackonblack89 has an opel that he wants to throw a sho motor into. nothing to do with what we were talking about.

But on that topic. You think 1600 is expensive? 300 for the blower, 300 for injectors, 230 for the fpr, 100 for the pump, 550 for the tweecer, and x amount for machine work. Thats already 1450 (i think lol). Who knows how much he is going to spend on machine work and exhaust. You cannot compare the price of a turbo kit or supercharger kit to the price of a busted 18 y/o car.

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

Picked up my 44lb inj w/ bored rail and a 90mm MAF yesterday. Moving along slowly, but surely. Now I just need a blower, fuel pump, intercooler and alot of fabbing. Thanks again to whiteguy3 (Scott) for all the help. Semper Fi!!

 

[Off Road SHO]

While the M-90 might be a small restriction at higher RPMs, it is by no means choking off the motor.

Here is an M-90 on The Other Woman at 6000 rpm's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG16m2e4O6I

The reason I was able to do this is twofold: One, while TOW is heavy for a two seater buggy (2400 lbs with me in it) she is still lighter than most V-8 powered buggies nowadays. Less mass to get moving equals quicker acceleration. Two, the Roots style blower would start improving the pressure in the intake manifold almost immediately. As seen in the video above, the initial roost is not caused by a "dumping" of the clutch, but just by dropping the loud pedal. That was one of the things I liked about the Eaton, no waiting.

Roots style blowers can move a lot of air. Lysolm style (screw type) can move even more and compress it at the same time.

Tom

 

[SHOguy 92]

I know that you have no idea what im talking about so i understand why you posted that. Blackonblack89 has an opel that he wants to throw a sho motor into. nothing to do with what we were talking about.

But on that topic. You think 1600 is expensive? 300 for the blower, 300 for injectors, 230 for the fpr, 100 for the pump, 550 for the tweecer, and x amount for machine work. Thats already 1450 (i think lol). Who knows how much he is going to spend on machine work and exhaust. You cannot compare the price of a turbo kit or supercharger kit to the price of a busted 18 y/o car.

I didn't mean to quote that post, meant to quote your previous one saying you weren't posting here anymore.

But if your listing all those prices and you got your turbo for $360, the piping isn't cheap, can't see how you wound up at $1600, adding in a BOV and Wastegate on top of that and an Front mount (unless you ran without that).

Either way, the Tweecer shouldn't be needed, why not just pay someone with a Tweecer to tune it?

Picked up my 44lb inj w/ bored rail and a 90mm MAF yesterday. Moving along slowly, but surely. Now I just need a blower, fuel pump, intercooler and alot of fabbing. Thanks again to whiteguy3 (Scott) for all the help. Semper Fi!!

Nice to hear that your making progress, you just been keeping your eye open for whatever blower you find for the cheapest amount, or have you got your mind set on which one your goign to run?

 

[somedude_001]

Either way, the Tweecer shouldn't be needed, why not just pay someone with a Tweecer to tune it?

the tweecer still has to be plugged in at all times to keep your tune. If you unplug the tweecer the ECU returns to factory parameters. Now you could save money here by using a non RT and rely on your tuner to have a RT version. Then just put his tune on your unit. couple hundred can be saved here for sure.

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

SHO GUY 92: I really want to go with a Gen V M90 since they are compact and very effiecent (realizing that the M112 will probally be to big for under the hood). The only problem is that so far I have had very little luck finding them. They flow better then a Gen III that has a full port job done as well. The gen III might be the way I go at first though as I can find that M90 for like $100 then another $200ish on a port job by ZZP (I think that is their name). That is still cheaper than a stock Gen V, but not as good.
I need to find out what the red line is for these blowers though. I know that they won't grenade (at least thats what I've been told) just become ineffcient, but I wonder about rotor growth at high rpms as that is what I have read will become the mechanical issue.
I realize though that they will stop being AE at the SHO's redline. This is the reason that I will run an intercooler with this setup even though I know it is normally not essential. I need to keep the charge as cool as possible to prevent knock, especially at high rpms when the M90 will be out of its effciency range and adding alot of heat to the charge.
Thanks again for all the info. You guys have been great. Semper Fi!!

 

[HotRodKid]

While the M-90 might be a small restriction at higher RPMs, it is by no means choking off the motor.

Shall i expand on that sentance a tad?

GeekSho's dyno graph clearly shows that an M90 is a very nice match to the SHO motor when used for reasonable power levels.

The key is to not try to make 700hp from an m90. just like anything else, gotta pick the right size hammer for the job*



*the hammer ... is my *****. (cookie for the first person that names what that is from)

 

[lowc]

roll models?

 

[mfuld]

*the hammer ... is my *****. (cookie for the first person that names what that is from)

Sounds like Dr. Horrible's sing along blog to me.

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

Is it from "Real Genuis" starring Val Kilmer?

 

[HotRodKid]

Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog was the correct answer

 

[SHOguy 92]

SHO GUY 92: I really want to go with a Gen V M90 since they are compact and very effiecent (realizing that the M112 will probally be to big for under the hood). The only problem is that so far I have had very little luck finding them. They flow better then a Gen III that has a full port job done as well. The gen III might be the way I go at first though as I can find that M90 for like $100 then another $200ish on a port job by ZZP (I think that is their name). That is still cheaper than a stock Gen V, but not as good.
I need to find out what the red line is for these blowers though. I know that they won't grenade (at least thats what I've been told) just become ineffcient, but I wonder about rotor growth at high rpms as that is what I have read will become the mechanical issue.
I realize though that they will stop being AE at the SHO's redline. This is the reason that I will run an intercooler with this setup even though I know it is normally not essential. I need to keep the charge as cool as possible to prevent knock, especially at high rpms when the M90 will be out of its effciency range and adding alot of heat to the charge.
Thanks again for all the info. You guys have been great. Semper Fi!!

I would junkyard search for a Gen V, buying them anywhere else will be expensive. People selling Gen V's online know what they got and they know people want them, thats why they are few and far between and they are all expensive. My car came with a Gen V swap done to it, and the reason why is, the guy before me went down to a junkyard and found an 04 GTP that was rolled, he bought the motor and the SC and had them dropped in the car, I think he scored that all for only $500 (a motor and SC with only 40k on them). Guys at a JY aren't going to care about the flow differences between a Gen III and a Gen V, they most likely will go at the same cost, so thats your best bet.

Also, to run a M90 at a good speed, an IC is essential, even in pushrod applications. I myself just moved to a IC, there no way I could run this small of a pulley without one.

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

That is what I figured about both the junkyard and the IC. You know if there is a redline on the Eaton? You ever hear of rotor growth that has caused damage or failure? Worst comes to worst if I can't find one I will get a Gen III for like $70-100 then port it. That is the last ditch effort. While I am still looking though I am going to start swapping my interior over and take care of some nagging issues. Thanks again for all the advice. Semper Fi!

 

[Jh8990]

That is what I figured about both the junkyard and the IC. You know if there is a redline on the Eaton? You ever hear of rotor growth that has caused damage or failure? Worst comes to worst if I can't find one I will get a Gen III for like $70-100 then port it. That is the last ditch effort. While I am still looking though I am going to start swapping my interior over and take care of some nagging issues. Thanks again for all the advice. Semper Fi!

ddid you get my text?

 

[SHOguy 92]

I haven't heard of any issues with rotor growth, it just becomes a massive heat machine after it spins too fast.

 

[Lance Cheney]

I agree with HRK -- on GeekSHO it was a junkyard M90 from one of the older Tbirds (not a 94-95 model). The inlet path from the "plenum" (box) to the intake runners (cut-off pieces of an original intake manifold) was basically straight-cut -- no smoothing of the transitions at all, and the motor was down noticeably on compression on one cylinder. Just doing some intake smoothing would probably have gained us a few % on HP. On a healthy motor with a 5th gen or ported M90 I don't see any reason why 300whp would be all that difficult. The 5th gen is most efficient (at the 500-600cfm you're looking for) at around 12psi, which might be a bit high, but the efficiency doesn't get that much worse at 7-8 psi.

I did the tuning on GeekSHO and it wasn't real difficult to tune either. Both part-throttle and WOT A/F came into line pretty quickly. It made some fun sounds when you got on it too...

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

So ultimately how much more effeceint are we talking a Gen V is? I can get a ported Gen III for about half of what a Gen V will cost me. If the difference in the two is that a Gen V will give me the gains I want at a lower boost then I would just as well get a Gen III and run a little more boost. Either way I figure on running about 10lbs since I figure I will lose 1-2lbs in the IC and the intake which brings me to the 8lbs that I want at the engine. Also will this set up require an FPR to make work?

 

[Sho Amo]

yes. You will need a bigger fuel pump to run 10psi, which in turn requires an fpr.

 

[SHOguy 92]

So ultimately how much more effeceint are we talking a Gen V is? I can get a ported Gen III for about half of what a Gen V will cost me. If the difference in the two is that a Gen V will give me the gains I want at a lower boost then I would just as well get a Gen III and run a little more boost. Either way I figure on running about 10lbs since I figure I will lose 1-2lbs in the IC and the intake which brings me to the 8lbs that I want at the engine. Also will this set up require an FPR to make work?

Typical gains on 3800's that are running close to maxing out the Gen 3 then moving to an unported Gen V are around 20whp. How cheap are you able to get a Ported Gen III for? Has to be dirt cheap. The Gen V will give you better gains at lower boost, and turning the Gen III to a higher boost level will help you combat that. But the issue is that your going to be running the SC on a motor that spins quite a bit faster than the intended uses of the M90's. So you most likely will be running them at their borderline anyways, so going to a smaller pulley might not be the answer, after you pass efficiency on these they only make more heat, not more boost. I've heard of people going to a larger pulley and picking up 20hp (one guy went from a 2.55" to a 2.7" and gained that much power. And then he went out and ran an 11.2 @ 124mph with his car in street trim with an M90 :O

I'm not saying you can't make the Gen III work, but in this higher RPM application it's going to be a much better choice to go Gen V M90 or MP112. A ported Gen III and a unported Gen V should be similar in costs though.

 

[CplPflummUSMC]

I have found Gen III for ~$100. So with a good port we are in the $300-350 range. the cheapest Gen V I have seen is just a tick under $600 (589 IIRC). With all the M-112s that I have seen listed they just simply look to big to get under a hood. Especially since most were designed to have a water to air IC mount between the outlet and the intake. 20HP is a big difference though. Maybe I can find one in a JY and get it cheaper than that quote from above. Now from what I have read the Gen V don't require porting as they are pretty much at maxuim effcieny from the factory? If not that adds more cost to the SC and I think then I will have to go with the Gen III since the budget doesn't have an extra $400-500 in it. Thanks again for all the info.