dis test, coil test

[eeugross2]

Can anyone tell me if you can test the DIS module? Or take it somewhere to test? I'm having a spark problem(low power) that is very intermitant, and I have had the coil tested(good). It has new motorcraft plugs and wires. It runs awesome some of the time and starts everytime, so it doesnt seem to be the CPS. Then it's like someone flipped d a switch, and then it runs rough and no power.

Is it possible to have the coil pack(or DIS if testable) test good, yet still crap out some of the time?

Codes include
211
214
216
232

also 335, and 336

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Jim

 

[SHOZ123]

The Ford cd has a complete diagnostic routine of the ignition system. But it is a lot easier to just swap out the DIS with a good one.

Be sure the two lower screws are intact and tight on the dis module itself as these are the ground points for it.

 

[Jaz2099]

My car threw a code 327. I switched the dpfe sensor and it was fine. It kinda did the same thing you are saying like flipping a switch. stalled at stop lights though stalled a couple times going down the road I think the egr doesn't open right and it is kinda choking itself?? The other codes I don't know you said coil is good firing sequencing maybe ---- the ICM uses the camshaft positioin sensor for firing sequencing.

 

[projectSHO89]

the ICM uses the camshaft positioin sensor for firing sequencing.

Actually, it doesn't.

Spark firing is determined by the crank signal.

The cam signal synchronizes the fuel injectors to the proper cylinders.

DIS modules have been well known to fail, often intermitently, and drop out two cylinders at a time. When this happens, the tach drops by 1/3 while the engine speed does not. However, a coil or conntector fault can cause the same symptom.

Steve

 

[eeugross2]

So you think it could be the it could be the camshaft position sensor? I didn't see much on here about what that would cause the engine to do, do you know . That looks like a cheap easy one and the car has 120k, and I don't know any maint befor 90k. So even if its not that I call look at it as preventative.

I could swap the DIS with my son's but then he'd have to walk.

If the coil tests good, could it still malfunction intermitantly?

Thanks
Jim

 

[Jaz2099]

Doesn't the PCM use it for the fuel synchro and the ICM use it for firing sequencing.(the cam sensor) I thought thats what it was. FYI anywhere can test the DIS module(ICM)autozone,advanced, etc... I had mine tested but that wasn't the problem. I took it to Autozone they misdiagnosed the problem. I later searched and apparently others have had problems with getting those things tested or have had theirs tested bad but it seems to work fine, etc.. Search the forum

 

[Rockledge]

Actually, it doesn't.

Spark firing is determined by the crank signal.

The cam signal synchronizes the fuel injectors to the proper cylinders.

Steve, it's my understanding that in systems with sequential fuel injection and DIS (like the SHO), both fuel injector and spark sequencing is determined by the CID signal.

In EDIS systems, on the other hand, the CID signal is not used for spark timing, it's only used for fuel injector sequencing.

 

[Jaz2099]

If you have access to a dis you can swap i'd definitely try that.

 

[eeugross2]

It sounds though the most likely failure in order would be

Crank sensor
cam sensor
dis
coil

with the first two being maint items I should do anyway?

Jim

 

[Jaz2099]

I'd go with the dis, coil, cam , crank sensor in that order what i see to be the easiest first especially if you have a good dis to swap. crank sensor is the last thing I would want it to be(the most work) unless your gonna rip into it and do the timing belt, water pump, cam seals etc... it does have 120k miles you say right? might be about that time anyway especially if you don't know history of the vehicle. http://www.shophoenixproject.com/maint.htm at the bottom of page you'll see 60k mile service. look at the front 60k for doing timing belt, water pump cam and crank sensors.

 

[eeugross2]

Sounds like a plan. Yeah, I need to do the front end. Just did top end. If I find the fix before I get to the CPS, maybe I'll wait until my son does his so I can learn from his mistakes. His seems to be starting a classic CPS problem ...occasional hard starting...0 rpms.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

 

[somedude_001]

here is a testing procedure that i found on the forums at a earlier date, check it out maybe it will help.

Ok Betty, you asked for it! We are going to check the whole darned DIS (acronym for Distributorless Ignition System (DIS).

1. the Crankshaft Position Sensor CPS, Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) signal to the DIS control Module (the box on the passanger side of the engine mounted on the crossover tube of the intake manifold.

Make sure the control module has a good ground. It is grounded by its mounting screws. Also check the groung from the passenger side of the engine intake manifold brace to the firewall)

Test #1 PIP to Control Unit, using a LED (light emiting diod) test light, or a DMM (Digital Multi-Meter (NOT an incandecesant light, NOR an analog (swing needle) meter).

Connect the meter or the test light by "back probing"* the dark blue wire at a connection between the two items (cps & control unit), and the negative battery terminal. The test light should blink as the engine is cranked, or the meter should read between 3 to 7 volts.

If the PIP signal is OK - nex6t test, if not the crank sensor, crank sensor power or ground, or wiring is faulty.

Test #2 if PIP is OK.
Spout to DIS Module (Spark Output of the ECU).
Connect DMM or LED to the Yellow wire with a light green stripe (Y/LG) and the negative battery cable. Crank the engine - LED light blinks, or DMM reads 3 to 7 volts.

If not control unit or wiring faulty. if OK, next test.

IDM(Ignition Diagnostic Moniter)to Control Unit.
Same deal connect DMM or LED to the gray wire with an orange stripe and the negative battery terminal, and crank the engine. Light blinks or the meter reads 3 to 7 volts.

If not - DIS module or wiring faulty. If OK next test.

My fingers are getting tired!

CID (Cylinder Identification or camshaft position sensor)Use the LED test light at the sensor (DG) dark green wire and negative battery post, and (you guessed it) crank the enginre. The light should blink. If not the CID or the wiring is faulty. If test OK, next test.

Coil Power (PWR) Connect the test light between the coil power (VBAT)wire and the negative battery terminal, and put the key ON. The test light should be ON. If not, the coil PWR wiring is faulty.

"Back probing" is a process of sticking a probe (OK stop that snickering guys)in the back of a connection to make contact with the desired wire.

Mechanicks often puncture the wire with their probe. I do not like this because it can contribute to corrosion of the wire and/or shorts or grounds. I attach a long pin, like a hat pin or sewing needle, to my meter end or the end of the test light. I just tape it on.

Betty, there you have it. The tests to check from the CPS to the Coil through the DIS Module.

I need to go cool my fingers off by wrapping them around a cold Molsons ***. cheers rangerj

 

[Charlie Hammond]

???just a quick question, the die-electric compound on the back of the DIS, I used a white (messy) thermal heat sink compound...and I think it "over-insulated" the darn thing. Won't start now. Question is, Go back to the silicon based (non-RTV) die-electric compound or does it matter...(won't start anyway).

 

[SHOZ123]

You should only use a thin layer of the zinc oxide thermal compound. You do not want to use any silicone. The DIS is grounded through the two lower bolt holes and not through the back plate.

 

[Rockledge]

???just a quick question, the die-electric compound on the back of the DIS, I used a white (messy) thermal heat sink compound...and I think it "over-insulated" the darn thing. Won't start now. Question is, Go back to the silicon based (non-RTV) die-electric compound or does it matter...(won't start anyway).

You might have gotten some of the dielectric grease on the DIS mounting screws or holes which could interfere with ground circuit. That's a big reason why I advocate NOT to use dielectric grease on the back of the DIS Module.