Dealer says don't change tranny fluid on 2011 SHO 90K miles

[DouglasB_SHO]

I took my 2011 SHO in for 90K service and my Ford dealer recommended I NOT change the transmission fluid. Their argument was that it's not worth the risk (to them?) to do it if it hadn't been done every 30K. I had it flushed and filled at 60K without any issue. There are no current issues with the trans and I'm trying to make sure it's is good for another 60K or so, but the dealer is recommending against a fluid flush and fill at half the mileage for the first time. Considering the price of a flush and fill, that really surprised me! Anyone have any experience with tranny fluid changes causing problems?

 

[Csbbrah]

Not personally. Its highly recommended to drain and fill it often.

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[krewat]

Some people change out a few quarts every oil change (or a certain number of oil changes).

 

[bpd1151]

That particular dealer is burying their head in the sand akin to an Ostrich. All at your eventual expense.

Trans fluid changes are easier to perform than a simple oil change.

Do it. If they won't, go somewhere else.

My trans is a testament to changing it, and doing so regularly.

Fluid is cheap. A new trans is not.

I can't make it any more clear/direct than that.

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[DouglasB_SHO]

That particular dealer is burying their head in the sand akin to an Ostrich. All at your eventual expense.

Trans fluid changes are easier to perform than a simple oil change.

Do it. If they won't, go somewhere else.

My trans is a testament to changing it, and doing so regularly.

Fluid is cheap. A new trans is not.

I can't make it any more clear/direct than that.

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Thanks bpd1151 -- That's what I was figuring. I think that particular service writer (at Koons Ford, Falls Church, VA) had a one bad experience and is continuing to project that as what he thinks is (allegedly) best for the dealership but in reality is more likely motivated from protecting himself. When I reminded him that FORD its not due until 150K, he dismissed that and said if it isn't changed every 30K, don't change it at all. If Ford or Koons is watching this forum at all, there should be an immediate discussion with that service rep. (Personally, if he worked for me and this discrepancy was brought to my attention, he wouldn't be working for me any longer.)

 

[Johnbigdog]

I agree that there was likely a bad expirience that resulted in that recommendation. I have hear of transmissions not being serviced for a really long time resulting in the friction material breaking/wearing away and into the fluid. Instead of the clutch friction disks holding, it's the friction material in the oil.

You flush the oil, and now the friction material is now gone.

How I look at this, is if the oil is changed and the transmission starts acting funny, there was a problem before the flush and it's not a problem with the dealership or the work if the work was done correctly. However, the customer may not understand or want to understand this.

On the flip side, any time I go into a dealership and listen to them try to upsell maintenance or snake oil to unknowing customers it reves my engine.

Now I do believe that some services can improve a vehicles drivability such as a fuel injector flush, but if you use good fuel there are detergents in the fuel to prevent build up.

Transmission flush chemicals I never understood because transmission oil in naturally highly cleansing. You can use old fluid to clean parts or use it to cut with engine oil to clean out the engine. (That last part is not endorsed by Ford, just and old school procedure)

Aftermarket Coolant flushes are a wash, I dont know what they are made up of or what they do. Ford has chemicals for specific vehicles and procedures for the flush including our cars.

Brake fluid flushes are a good idea every three years or so. BUT no cleaners are really needed. Just pour in new fluid and use it to push out the old. (I do recommend pressure or vacuum bleeding. Reason being is if there is debris in the master, your not going to run your seals through them during this kind of flush vs pumping the brake pedal through it's full stroke)

We don't have power steering fluid, but changing this is a good idea if you have a hydraulic system. No chemicals are really needed, just drain and fill a few times. Most of the time its ATF so again, a highly cleansing fluid. Changing the oil can also lessen that whine noise on cold starts from my expirience.

Fuel additives for water, or ethanol is a waste to me. The ethanol in the fuel is going to absorb the water in the tank if there is any. You can by something aftermarket if you want, but ford does sell a cleaner to add to your tank if you want an approved chemical. Funny enough, I couldn't find a local dealership that sold it.

Any how, if you have read to this point, you have a few options about your disappointing visit. Call and leave a message about the particular Service Writer to the service manager, or you can call the Ford Customer Relationship Center (CRC) at 1-800-392-3673.

I have also added an attachment that is available to all dealerships about maint. Flushes and aftermarket chemicals.

 

[rubydist]

Some of the older Ford auto transmissions (think 3 speed and 4 speed) had a nasty tendency to fail shortly after a fluid flush, if it had not been done for a long time, such as at 100k miles for the first flush. This was due to what John described above where a lot of friction material was floating in the oil and when it got removed, suddenly the clutches were slipping and soon burned up.

I have not heard of that issue on the newer (6 speed+) transmissions, and anyway you are only 30k since the last one, so I would not be deterred. Find another dealer that will do it and go there.

 

[luigisho]

I am a little more paranoid of trans fluid flushes. That doesn't mean don't change out the fluid. Open it up, let it drain, change filter and refill. That's just personal preference based on what Johnbigdog and rubydist stated. I just go with drain and refill. I'm surprised they didn't give you the lifetime fluid okey doke and at least gave you some quasi reason for why they don't want to do it. You're in a high volume high population center with alot of choices. call around. The same dealer group with different service locations may even give you a different answer. I had a friend of mine that worked at Koons up there way back doing Ford transmission rebuilds.

 

[SHOdded]

Fluid "flushes" have gone the way of the dodo for sealed transmissions. Now it is fluid "exchange" and it is no different from what the pump is doing in your transmission, except the exchange is pushing in new fluid while the pump pulls out old fluid. But a regular drain and fill routine is just as good, and Ford approved, and DIY, so ... why not? Honda transmissions have a reputation for failing. BUT given a regular drain/fill routine, they go for a long long time. So why not do a drain and fill annually? Unless you are trying to set a record for longest running transmission on original fluid?

 

[AmericanPride]

When I got my wife's FLEX, the first thing I did was get everything flushed at the dealership...without question.

Keep this in mind...they answer to FORD. Not the dealership owner. When you get service done ( at least mine have) at a dealership, Ford will send you a survey asking how they did on a few different points and give you a big section for comments.

I didn't have a very good experience this last time, so I answered. When I spoke to the service manager next after his staffs failed communications, he made it clear they were contacted by Ford to look into it and address it.

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[Frank W.]

That particular dealer is burying their head in the sand akin to an Ostrich. All at your eventual expense.

Trans fluid changes are easier to perform than a simple oil change.

Do it. If they won't, go somewhere else.

My trans is a testament to changing it, and doing so regularly.

Fluid is cheap. A new trans is not.

I can't make it any more clear/direct than that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I took my 2011 SHO in for 90K service and my Ford dealer recommended I NOT change the transmission fluid. Their argument was that it's not worth the risk (to them?) to do it if it hadn't been done every 30K. I had it flushed and filled at 60K without any issue. There are no current issues with the trans and I'm trying to make sure it's is good for another 60K or so, but the dealer is recommending against a fluid flush and fill at half the mileage for the first time. Considering the price of a flush and fill, that really surprised me! Anyone have any experience with tranny fluid changes causing problems?

I took my 2014 to every Ford dealer within 25 miles to have the PTU fluid serviced and they all refused. “That’s not a serviceable part!” Is the excuse I keep getting. I’m a bit ticked off by it.

 

[only_1]

I took my 2014 to every Ford dealer within 25 miles to have the PTU fluid serviced and they all refused. “That’s not a serviceable part!” Is the excuse I keep getting. I’m a bit ticked off by it.

Time to drill a hole in it so you can just do it on your own at home. I just did mine a week ago. I was surprised how much more fluid I got out. -Just out of curiosity, I used a pump to extract as much fluid as I could before I drilled it. (Also to limit how much would drain down on me while drilling).

 

[DouglasB_SHO]

Fluid "flushes" have gone the way of the dodo for sealed transmissions. Now it is fluid "exchange" and it is no different from what the pump is doing in your transmission, except the exchange is pushing in new fluid while the pump pulls out old fluid. But a regular drain and fill routine is just as good, and Ford approved, and DIY, so ... why not? Honda transmissions have a reputation for failing. BUT given a regular drain/fill routine, they go for a long long time. So why not do a drain and fill annually? Unless you are trying to set a record for longest running transmission on original fluid?

Concur -- it really isn't a "flush-and-fill" as it would be for brake fluid where you want all of the old fluid out of the system.

 

[DouglasB_SHO]

I agree that there was likely a bad expirience that resulted in that recommendation. I have hear of transmissions not being serviced for a really long time resulting in the friction material breaking/wearing away and into the fluid. Instead of the clutch friction disks holding, it's the friction material in the oil.

You flush the oil, and now the friction material is now gone.

How I look at this, is if the oil is changed and the transmission starts acting funny, there was a problem before the flush and it's not a problem with the dealership or the work if the work was done correctly. However, the customer may not understand or want to understand this.

On the flip side, any time I go into a dealership and listen to them try to upsell maintenance or snake oil to unknowing customers it reves my engine.

Now I do believe that some services can improve a vehicles drivability such as a fuel injector flush, but if you use good fuel there are detergents in the fuel to prevent build up.

Transmission flush chemicals I never understood because transmission oil in naturally highly cleansing. You can use old fluid to clean parts or use it to cut with engine oil to clean out the engine. (That last part is not endorsed by Ford, just and old school procedure)

Aftermarket Coolant flushes are a wash, I dont know what they are made up of or what they do. Ford has chemicals for specific vehicles and procedures for the flush including our cars.

Brake fluid flushes are a good idea every three years or so. BUT no cleaners are really needed. Just pour in new fluid and use it to push out the old. (I do recommend pressure or vacuum bleeding. Reason being is if there is debris in the master, your not going to run your seals through them during this kind of flush vs pumping the brake pedal through it's full stroke)

We don't have power steering fluid, but changing this is a good idea if you have a hydraulic system. No chemicals are really needed, just drain and fill a few times. Most of the time its ATF so again, a highly cleansing fluid. Changing the oil can also lessen that whine noise on cold starts from my expirience.

Fuel additives for water, or ethanol is a waste to me. The ethanol in the fuel is going to absorb the water in the tank if there is any. You can by something aftermarket if you want, but ford does sell a cleaner to add to your tank if you want an approved chemical. Funny enough, I couldn't find a local dealership that sold it.

Any how, if you have read to this point, you have a few options about your disappointing visit. Call and leave a message about the particular Service Writer to the service manager, or you can call the Ford Customer Relationship Center (CRC) at 1-800-392-3673.

I have also added an attachment that is available to all dealerships about maint. Flushes and aftermarket chemicals.

Thanks JBD - very helpful about the array of maintenance services typically offered. Yes, detergents in fuel SHOULD help keep the injectors/plugs clean but we drive in such a range of circumstances with few opportunities to force the system to clean out. (For example, two weeks ago I took my Mustang out for a NASA HPDE weekend and in the past five days took it on a 1,000 mile trip, getting the second best ever mileage from it! I think the high-rev weekend helped blow out some of the *stuff*) Brake fluid just got done because it hadn't been done (my mistake, but nothing bad happened.) Coolant too, again nothing bad before or after, just preventative. Since the trans was done at 60K with no ill effects, I'm going back to Koons to tell them I want it done per Ford specs. That puts the onus back on them and I will follow up with their customer feedback and Ford Customer Relationship whichever way it goes. If it goes well, I'll give them credit. If it doesn't, I'll say what I know about it and not pre-suppose that a mechanical problem was their doing. (However, if they fail to replace a drain plug or tighten all the pan bolts, that will be reported everywhere!

 

[Johnbigdog]

Thanks JBD - very helpful about the array of maintenance services typically offered. Yes, detergents in fuel SHOULD help keep the injectors/plugs clean but we drive in such a range of circumstances with few opportunities to force the system to clean out. (For example, two weeks ago I took my Mustang out for a NASA HPDE weekend and in the past five days took it on a 1,000 mile trip, getting the second best ever mileage from it! I think the high-rev weekend helped blow out some of the *stuff*) Brake fluid just got done because it hadn't been done (my mistake, but nothing bad happened.) Coolant too, again nothing bad before or after, just preventative. Since the trans was done at 60K with no ill effects, I'm going back to Koons to tell them I want it done per Ford specs. That puts the onus back on them and I will follow up with their customer feedback and Ford Customer Relationship whichever way it goes. If it goes well, I'll give them credit. If it doesn't, I'll say what I know about it and not pre-suppose that a mechanical problem was their doing. (However, if they fail to replace a drain plug or tighten all the pan bolts, that will be reported everywhere!

Most dealerships will use a "flush" machine where oil is drained out from one line, and pumped in in the other so no worries. Plus you cant change the filter in the 6F50/55 without first splitting the transmission case.

 

[DouglasB_SHO]

Most dealerships will use a "flush" machine where oil is drained out from one line, and pumped in in the other so no worries. Plus you cant change the filter in the 6F50/55 without first splitting the transmission case.

Thanks. Plus, just saw your tag line about experience. In my experience, getting it right everytime doesn't represent knowledge or experience -- perhaps a blend of knowledge and favorable circumstances (known to some as fortune or luck). Not getting it right the first time AND applying the knowledge gained from that experience to get it right the next time, IS a good beginning on wisdom.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Thanks. Plus, just saw your tag line about experience. In my experience, getting it right everytime doesn't represent knowledge or experience -- perhaps a blend of knowledge and favorable circumstances (known to some as fortune or luck). Not getting it right the first time AND applying the knowledge gained from that experience to get it right the next time, IS a good beginning on wisdom.

I agree. And that's why you sometimes you have to pay a few hundred dollars for a 15 min job. It took years to learn how to do that job in that time.

I think that goes for anything.

I really do appreciate the understanding you have mentioned. It goes a long way not only for yourself, but helping others.

 

[rubydist]

And that is why many of us post information on this forum - no sense in everyone making the same mistakes I did...

And when the community pitches in together on the knowledge base, everyone gets a lot of wisdom/knowledge at a bargain rate.

 

[DouglasB_SHO]

And that is why many of us post information on this forum - no sense in everyone making the same mistakes I did...

And when the community pitches in together on the knowledge base, everyone gets a lot of wisdom/knowledge at a bargain rate.

And that's why I'm happy to ask a new question in the open, after searching the forums to make sure I'm not repeating something that's already been asked. If it is a new question, even if a twist on something already discussed, we all have the opportunity to learn. Thanks for the support!