Crank Bolt Removal / Starter Fried?

[fredhurderjr]

Eric & I went to replace the front crank seal on Jezebel tonight & we blew something out electrical on doing the breaker-bar-on-the-crank-bolt step. Lost dash lights & all. It was freaky - I've never seen anything like it. Eric moved the starter cables & dash lights came back once, then we lost them again. No juice to the system, even with a jump pack on there. Remember that my battery is on the driver's side due to the supercharger. Before I pull the starter for testing and go through the fuses, relay pack, etc., anyone got any ideas? We kind of called it a night at that point...

Aside from the front crank seal, I think I blew at least one cam seal again as well. Oil's pretty high up on the upper timing belt cover.

We also did a compression test:

Cyl. / PSI
1 - 170
2 - 170
3 - 175
4 - 160
5 - 160
6 - 175

This is a bored 3.0L SHO Shop special, chrome rings, 5k miles on the engine, 9.0:1 CR pistons. My 91 w/ 120k runs about 190-210 per cylinder.

For those who haven't had to work with the Vortech unit crammed in there, it's a real ******

I swear it's a case of sibling rivalry between Jezzie & Monique...

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White 95 SHO MTX
"Jezebel"

Teases me with occasional great runs in between break-downs.
3.2L SHO Shop Long Block
9psi Vortech S-Trim Supercharger
Eibachs, Tokicos, 96 Brakes, SFCs, STBs
PP Y-Pipe, Custom Stainless Cat-back, Bullets
http://members.home.com/fhurderjr/sho.htm

Mocha 91 SHO
"Monique"

Hi-Revs Jr. Clutch
Dynomax Cat-Back
"The Reliable Winter Car"

 

[SHO 3.0]

I don't know about the SHO, but Fords are infamous for in line fuses, usually down near the starter. They caused all kinds of trouble in my buddies Mustang

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1992 Black on Black, Canadian edition

 

[centaurus3200]

i'm sure you guys already tried this. did you make sure the starter wire was secured? mine flew off in a rain storm a couple of weeks ago.

also, being the engine is lowered compression, wouldn't those rumbers be within specs?

Robby

 

[Lupo]

Originally posted by centaurus3200:
also, being the engine is lowered compression, wouldn't those numbers be within specs?

Robby

I could measure my compression and let you know. I have about 5-6K my engine so far. Since your chrome rings are probably still breaking in, I would imagine the compression being a little lower for a while.




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94 MTX SHO
K&N Filter
Short Shift kit
SHO Shop h-brace

 

[SHOTIME]

Lupo, Im sure fred would appreciate you checking, We spent all night pulling that damn blower off, What a bitch. There has to be a system that we are missing.

Ah well, We attack the cam seals and crank seal tonight.

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Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/billebobob/index.html

 

[Lupo]

Originally posted by SHOTIME:
Lupo, Im sure fred would appreciate you checking, We spent all night pulling that damn blower off,

Yea, I know exactly what a pain it is to take off the ENTIRE blower assembly!

I think putting it on is more of a pain though, haveng to insert and tighten the bolts and bracket in a specific order to get everything in.

Question for Fred:
Did you actually blow-out, or in any other way damage the crank seal? Because if there was simply enough pressure to push oil out, or unseat the seal, it could still be quite good. What is really important is finding out exactly why you have so much crankcase pressure to blow oil out the seal. I have the exact same long block , and I have never blown a seal. Granted the first time you blew out the seal was because of boost in the PCV system. You have to not only make sure that boost does not get in the crankcase, but that it can breath and relieve pressure. My buddy has a jeep, and his valve cover breather got clogged. He blew 2 quarts out the rear main seal, but he fixed the breather, cleaned up the oil, and the seal was fine.

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94 MTX SHO
K&N Filter
Short Shift kit
SHO Shop h-brace

[This message has been edited by Lupo (edited 12-28-2001).]

 

[SHOTIME]

I agree that the seal should be fine. but it still needs to be cleaned and reinstalled.
Vadim recomends Black RTV this time.

Could you tell us what the correct pattern for the reinstall is? Im sure after a few hours we will figure it out.. but after a few hours ill be throwing wrenches at the windows...

Also, how much boost you pushing on your block? freds going for 15PSI

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Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/billebobob/index.html

 

[Lupo]

Originally posted by SHOTIME:
I agree that the seal should be fine. but it still needs to be cleaned and reinstalled.
Vadim recomends Black RTV this time.

Could you tell us what the correct pattern for the reinstall is? Im sure after a few hours we will figure it out.. but after a few hours ill be throwing wrenches at the windows...

Also, how much boost you pushing on your block? freds going for 15PSI

The annoying part of putting the blower assembly back on is having the bracket and 80-90% of the bolts on, then realizing that to put on the next bolt, you need to take everything off again because you are blocked by something, or cannot reach it anymore. Hence the solution to the problem is making sure its on before tightening everything down. I did this 3 times in a row once. My setup probably is slightly different, beacuse I had to relocate the idle pulley (94-95 SHOs have different alternator setups). Here is what I can remember/ recommend:
1. Some bolts that mount the S-trim to the bracket need to be on (no necessarily tightened, just on) before the bracket is tightened down with it's 3 long bolts. Im thinking at least the top bolt if the intake plenum is still on.
2. Have the idle pulley, and the short bolts around it already on (but not tight). They get in each other's way, so that one cannot be tightened at a time, they need to be tightened down at the same time. the old "one turn here for one turn there" trick. You will see what I mean.

Nothing is too difficult, just very annoying when you have to take everything off again beacuse of a bolt you missed.

I was at 9psi with my block originally. About 1 1/2 months ago I started my "upgrade" to 12psi, along with underdrive pulleys which I never had, and an aftercooler which I always wanted. Vadim gave me a 3.12 pulley to replace my "9psi" 3.48 old pulley. I know Fred is running 3.33 right now. I have no idea what the final outcome will be, but I am aiming for 12-13psi with a Vortech aftercooler. I don't want to use race gas.

I am currently still waiting on the #$%^$&* underdrive pulleys for my water pump and power steering, so I can put everything back togther!



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94 MTX SHO
K&N Filter
Short Shift kit
SHO Shop h-brace

 

[SHOTIME]

Great thanks brian,

And for everyone else, The problem was a bad connection at the battery.

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Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/billebobob/index.html

 

[fredhurderjr]

Hey Brian, thanks for the feedback. Vadim called me yesterday, and we discussed a great many things, one of which was the seal. BTW - the front crank seal looked fine in-place; the rear bank intake cam seal was blown about 1" out of place.

I appreciate your feedback on the blower. Something isn't right with this combo yet; I'm supposed to be at 380hp at the wheels, with 9psi. I hit 14psi on the dyno last time, and made 346. Vadim's going to send out some new chips to lean it out a little.

As far as compression, he said that's about right for the 9.0:1 block, and that the 160's & 175's are within a range that's acceptable.

As far as the blower re-installation, I WILL be visiting Sears / Snap-On for some ratcheting closed-end wrenches, and once we get the "this one first, this one second" routine, I'll put a little "1", "2" on there. What the ****, I mean the last guy to touch my car used a permanent marker to draw the belt routing on my white strut tower...

Thanks again.

 

[Lupo]

Man, do I really need those ratcheting closed-end wrenches! I think I go get some this weekend.

I had some real problems when I first hooked up the Vortech and bracket. The idle pulley would hit the alternator pulley. I took everything off, and got a smaller pulley for the alternator (yes, I was actually overdriving my alt!). The pulley would still not fit. I took everything off again. Vadim gave me a ribbed pulley with the ribs machined down from a Contour. This pulley would BARELY clear with my smaller alternator pulley. I had to shave off about half of the bolt head for the pulley because the alternator was so close, I could not fit the bolt in. Needless to say, this setup was really cheesy. I had it on for a year though. After racing around one day, 3 of the 6 ribs on the belt got shredded off. I decided to "upgrade" to 12psi, and fix this problem too. I ended up drilling a hole a little further from the original, and putting the bolt in from the other side (the head rests inbetween the fins of the Vortech when the Vortech is flush against the bracket). I also tach welded it into place. I put the correct pulley on, and used a nut on that side. This gave me enough room to actaully run an underdrive alternator pulley, which I should have been using in the first place. I also used a Goodyear belt (thanks for the recommendation Fred!) to replace my shredded one. Between all this, I have taken apart the bracket assembly more times than I can remember.

Sometimes, there is no room to get a closed-end wrench on the bolts, and you HAVE to use an open ended one. I would recommend using as THIN a boxwrench as you can find. I can post pictures of my bracket if you want.


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94 MTX SHO
K&N Filter
Short Shift kit
SHO Shop h-brace

 

[89 SHO/SC]

Fred your rings may not be completely seated (my best dyno results was at 7800 miles and my idle vacuum went up after my motor had 6000 miles on it). Currently, my 3.2 has 175 +/-3 psi compression. 160 sounds a 'litle' low.