goathead75
New Member
Looking to add a CAI so I was wondering if there were any huge differences/pros/cons between the two. Thanks!
Considering CAI, any benefit K&N vs. Airaid?
- Thread starter goathead75
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kgupton123456
Active Member
I went with Weapon-r air filter
I had a airaid and I switch to Weapon with this one you are able to at least you can hear the air sucking in, and for the cleaning all that you have to use is water, no oil after words.
it does not come with a hear shield but when you are driving the air in taking in is the same temp as the out side air.
I had a airaid and I switch to Weapon with this one you are able to at least you can hear the air sucking in, and for the cleaning all that you have to use is water, no oil after words.
it does not come with a hear shield but when you are driving the air in taking in is the same temp as the out side air.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
Best bang for the buck... K & N Drop In Filter. Other CAI's are pretty much "Fluff".
They look great, but really don't add HP.
They look great, but really don't add HP.
kgupton123456
Active Member
I am not trying to argue with you EcoBrick Bob but really adding HP is to allow more air to pass through in a faster rate right? I know the three air filters we are talking about can pass more air then the stock filter, so that would mean that all three would add HP? right?
I am not saying the one I was talking about is the best but one thing I know I like it better than the AIRAID though. I have not placed a K&N on my car, at the time the only one I could buy was from Hendric motors for $1200. I did not want to pay that much for a filter.
Like I said I like the sound the weapon-r gives when I kick it and to add I have the blow off valve to make more sound. I like the look with the stainless steel I have around the engine.
don't worry I will be home soon where I will be posting Photos of my car.
:woo-hoo:
Timeless
New Member
Adding more air only adds more power if the ECU is tuned to take advantage of it.
Stock tune should yield no benefits to any filter/CAI change.
Stock tune should yield no benefits to any filter/CAI change.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
#1... I think you are talking about Hennessey CAI at $1,200.
#2. I have a home made CAI that uses a Round Cone Filter attached to a "J" pipe from Rotofab. My IAT Temps are at or below ambient temp on the hwy, and my system has minimal heat sink, and recovers quickly.
#3. I purchased the AirAid system when there was a deal on them. It is a very good looking CAI package, but my IAT temps were much higher, and the end of the oval cone filter seemed to block the air inlet from the front. Also, it stayed hot (when heat sink'd) much longer than my custom system. So, I packaged it up and sold it.
A K&N drop in filter is definitely less restrictive that stock paper filter, and the stock Ford air box has a snorkel to funnel air to it. It also seems to maintain lower IAT temps that AirAid.
IAT temps do not determine the temp at which our ECM starts to retard timing due to heat. That is controlled by the MCT sensor, at the top of the intake, due to the issue of turbo compressed air heating up substantially, even though it passes thru the air-air intercooler. However, it makes sense that the cooler the air is when entering the system, the less heat added by the turbos at the same PSI.
If you drag your vehicle on a cool/cold night, you will see what I mean, as your engine will generate more power, even if the tune remains the same.
Since our vehicles have turbo boost, as long as they can suck adequate amounts of air for the boost levels they are set to provide in the tune, a CAI is just a "pretty thing".
If our vehicles were N/A (naturally aspirated) getting as much air into the combustion chamber is definitely the way to go. On my G8's, my Rotofab CAI is good for a noticeable HP gain, and is needed even more when other mods are added, like a bigger cam, headers, etc.
#2. I have a home made CAI that uses a Round Cone Filter attached to a "J" pipe from Rotofab. My IAT Temps are at or below ambient temp on the hwy, and my system has minimal heat sink, and recovers quickly.
#3. I purchased the AirAid system when there was a deal on them. It is a very good looking CAI package, but my IAT temps were much higher, and the end of the oval cone filter seemed to block the air inlet from the front. Also, it stayed hot (when heat sink'd) much longer than my custom system. So, I packaged it up and sold it.
A K&N drop in filter is definitely less restrictive that stock paper filter, and the stock Ford air box has a snorkel to funnel air to it. It also seems to maintain lower IAT temps that AirAid.
IAT temps do not determine the temp at which our ECM starts to retard timing due to heat. That is controlled by the MCT sensor, at the top of the intake, due to the issue of turbo compressed air heating up substantially, even though it passes thru the air-air intercooler. However, it makes sense that the cooler the air is when entering the system, the less heat added by the turbos at the same PSI.
If you drag your vehicle on a cool/cold night, you will see what I mean, as your engine will generate more power, even if the tune remains the same.
Since our vehicles have turbo boost, as long as they can suck adequate amounts of air for the boost levels they are set to provide in the tune, a CAI is just a "pretty thing".
If our vehicles were N/A (naturally aspirated) getting as much air into the combustion chamber is definitely the way to go. On my G8's, my Rotofab CAI is good for a noticeable HP gain, and is needed even more when other mods are added, like a bigger cam, headers, etc.
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kgupton123456
Active Member
yes Hennessey that was it, I guess I was think of Jeff Gordon at the time
and I find the best power at 50*
Night hawk
Member
Ive seen personally fi fords pick up as much as 40 rwhp with the simple addition of an open conical filter, same shop same conditions back to back.
More power is out there with a tune as well, if you question is as to if a high flow intake increases power, just browse though any tuning/performance magazine of your choice or visit the local dragstrip/ dyno shop during the open hood cool downs in the tech lines, see how many original air boxes are still on the project/competition/performance cars.
Im not sure if the newer ecoboost line stands to pick up as much with the much more advanced design. Usually NA motors pick up much less with the addition.
More power is out there with a tune as well, if you question is as to if a high flow intake increases power, just browse though any tuning/performance magazine of your choice or visit the local dragstrip/ dyno shop during the open hood cool downs in the tech lines, see how many original air boxes are still on the project/competition/performance cars.
Im not sure if the newer ecoboost line stands to pick up as much with the much more advanced design. Usually NA motors pick up much less with the addition.
Night hawk
Member
Pretty sure any conical set up that increases the CFM, you will pick up increased performance, more so with an accompanying tune, just be sure to use a pre filter if you end up with an open system. As to the pros and cons, most like the K&N for the easier access to the transmission fluid fill, and increased noise of the turbo/blowoff valves. As for the Air Raid, they enjoy the simplicity esp with the option of the non oiled filter. Not sure of dyno results, but I believe they are close in power pickup.
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EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
40 HP gain with a conical filter and our EcoBoost engines.....
IN YOUR DREAMS!!!!!!!
Please offer proof....:thankyou:My post was realistic...
N/A engines benefit more from the less restrictive CAI's because they are not compressing the air, and sucking it thru the filter.
Night hawk
Member
If I would have known you needed proof for you Bobby, I would have video taped the dyno session. N/A motors do not pick up nearly much as FI apps for the very reason you so adeptly stated. Comprehension bud, I said FI fords, not specifically ecoboosts, you added that, seems I explained that I was unsure about the newer DI mills as far as what they pick up, as they are more advanced.
Night hawk
Member
Follow this,
the first is NA( naturally aspirated ie no forced induction:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_3SNWFM04o
the first is NA( naturally aspirated ie no forced induction:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_3SNWFM04o
Night hawk
Member
Now here is a set up for a SHELBY, which has a supercharger (i.e. Forced induction)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlogOvAohGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlogOvAohGY
Night hawk
Member
56rwhp sae corrected > 18rwhp sae corrected on dynojet I'll try to find the dyno sheet on the 04 Cobra I tuned to really give you crazy eyes with just a conical S&B filter with MAF adapter that picked up 38/40 rwhp sae corrected.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
So... A N/A engine is not fuel injected??? N/A means Naturally Aspirated which a EB Engine is NOT. A N/A engine can be carburated or fuel injected, but cannot be boosted with turbos, superchargers or any other forced air system.
I have 2 G8's and the RotoFab CAI's definitely add 20+ HP by themselves, and lots more with a good tune. N/A engines if they are fuel injected and properly tuned benefit MORE from more air and a more efficient CAI than a turbo or supercharged engine. The latter benefit from a really effient intercooler which cools the boosted charge. The amount of boost and its temp control the performance, provided the engine and it's fuel system (injector volume and fuel delivery volume) can handle the available boost. That is why the DIFP (direct injection fuel pump) pressure needs to be monitored. I personally have seen DI pressure drop from 2,000 + PSI down to just below 1,000 PSI, and still keep my Lambda sensors (2 -one each bank of cyl) below .82.
But, the problem with our EB engines is that the turbos can only suck in so much air due to their small size. The Ford factory CAI provides that air quite efficiently and doesn't heat up the air any more than the AirAid. The AirAid seems to provide more noise and certainly looks great. I continually log IAT temp with my MSD Dashhawk and have definitely seen cooler IAT temps with my own custom system vs the AirAid. I believe that is because the round filter is further from the engine heat, close to and facing the drivers side fender. However, I make no boasts about how much extra HP or Torque, if any that it gains. I also have no proof that the MCT sensor is recording lower temps, just because I see a couple degrees lower IAT temp.
That's why if you read 4DRHTRD's detailed explanations of what he has and is doing to his entire system and why, you wouldn't make wild claims about this engine and drivetrain package.
AND DON'T EVER CALL ME BOBBY... I could attack you much more easily on many other counts including your obvious attitude... but it isn't worth it. If you don't want to figure it out... you won't.
I have 2 G8's and the RotoFab CAI's definitely add 20+ HP by themselves, and lots more with a good tune. N/A engines if they are fuel injected and properly tuned benefit MORE from more air and a more efficient CAI than a turbo or supercharged engine. The latter benefit from a really effient intercooler which cools the boosted charge. The amount of boost and its temp control the performance, provided the engine and it's fuel system (injector volume and fuel delivery volume) can handle the available boost. That is why the DIFP (direct injection fuel pump) pressure needs to be monitored. I personally have seen DI pressure drop from 2,000 + PSI down to just below 1,000 PSI, and still keep my Lambda sensors (2 -one each bank of cyl) below .82.
But, the problem with our EB engines is that the turbos can only suck in so much air due to their small size. The Ford factory CAI provides that air quite efficiently and doesn't heat up the air any more than the AirAid. The AirAid seems to provide more noise and certainly looks great. I continually log IAT temp with my MSD Dashhawk and have definitely seen cooler IAT temps with my own custom system vs the AirAid. I believe that is because the round filter is further from the engine heat, close to and facing the drivers side fender. However, I make no boasts about how much extra HP or Torque, if any that it gains. I also have no proof that the MCT sensor is recording lower temps, just because I see a couple degrees lower IAT temp.
That's why if you read 4DRHTRD's detailed explanations of what he has and is doing to his entire system and why, you wouldn't make wild claims about this engine and drivetrain package.
AND DON'T EVER CALL ME BOBBY... I could attack you much more easily on many other counts including your obvious attitude... but it isn't worth it. If you don't want to figure it out... you won't.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
I want to apologize.... I thought you were talking about an AirAid CAI.. I see you were talking about an Air Raid CSI (community service informational) siren!!!!! We have 6 of those at our lake warning system for bad weather and they definitely add noise!!!! Not sure if it would fit under the hood... but maybe in the trunk.
Night hawk
Member
Bobby no harm no foul, its ok to have opinions, and sometimes incorrect some folks just have a little more tuning time than you, "attack"? hmm not a good idea. Good luck with the Pontiacs, part of a division that should have never been chopped. Idle air temps are only a really big deal if the car is stationary once its rolling, it levels out. Some well tuned N/A motors do have good gains but apples to apples a FI (force Inducted) also well tuned will have subtantially more. Good luck to the OP I hope the info is helpful in your final decision.
Night hawk
Member
Goathead also check out some other threads on the K&N system I guess the IAT temps through the use of the metal tube are really elevated, also due to the position of the sensor to the motor. Ive seen recent info on this on additional ecoboost sites
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
My IAT sensor in the RotoFab "J" pipe I used for my custom CAI is at least 6" further towards the fender than stock. That may make some difference, though I also added a plastic baffle to keep heat away from Cone Filter and IAT sensor. Have no idea if it causes lower MCT temps, which is the only real issue as far as the computer de-tuning the engine due to high intake air heat.
The Hennessey CAI system uses metal tubing. ALL metal tubing heat sinks much worse than plastic, and takes longer to cool down with cooler air passing thru it.
The best custom system I have seen is the one that 4DRHTRD made for his Flex. Think he has posted pix and details elsewhere on this site.
Just remember... on the EB engine, CAI's are mostly Visual and a bit of Noise FLUFF!!
Great way to impress your friends... but almost worthless at the strip.
For those of you who watched the Livernois thread on their EBOF website where they ported the EB heads and got like 30% better intake flow and 60% better exhaust flow.... just remember when the heads went on an engine... you never heard another word about this endeavor... BECAUSE THE ENGINE WASN'T ABLE TO RUN on the street!
Our exhaust manifolds are about the size of a quarter... because the turbos need lots of pressure and velocity to spin quickly. These engines have lots of Ford engineering design thought in them. The best investment you can do is a tune, because Ford was conservative in that area. The rest of the package is pretty much maxed out, short of nitrous or methanol injection.
I have word from a very reliable birdie that the 2015 EB engine is going to be radically changed. Engineer friend who told me this, actually used the word Revolutionary!!!! And he is privileged to be helping on the project!
The Hennessey CAI system uses metal tubing. ALL metal tubing heat sinks much worse than plastic, and takes longer to cool down with cooler air passing thru it.
The best custom system I have seen is the one that 4DRHTRD made for his Flex. Think he has posted pix and details elsewhere on this site.
Just remember... on the EB engine, CAI's are mostly Visual and a bit of Noise FLUFF!!
Great way to impress your friends... but almost worthless at the strip.
For those of you who watched the Livernois thread on their EBOF website where they ported the EB heads and got like 30% better intake flow and 60% better exhaust flow.... just remember when the heads went on an engine... you never heard another word about this endeavor... BECAUSE THE ENGINE WASN'T ABLE TO RUN on the street!
Our exhaust manifolds are about the size of a quarter... because the turbos need lots of pressure and velocity to spin quickly. These engines have lots of Ford engineering design thought in them. The best investment you can do is a tune, because Ford was conservative in that area. The rest of the package is pretty much maxed out, short of nitrous or methanol injection.
I have word from a very reliable birdie that the 2015 EB engine is going to be radically changed. Engineer friend who told me this, actually used the word Revolutionary!!!! And he is privileged to be helping on the project!
Screaming01l
New Member
Our exhaust manifolds are about the size of a quarter... because the turbos need lots of pressure and velocity to spin quickly
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