clutch service update #4 : finis

[Bank of SHO]

Reinstalling the transmission was a major pain. Even with a homemade adapter for my jack, the tranny would become unbalanced when trying to mate it with the engine. The next day, I rented a tranny jack. It allows you to tilt the tranny any way you need to. It installed pretty painlessly with it. I highly recommend renting this type of jack. It only takes a short while with it and costs only $20 for the minimum four hour rental.

Remounting the subframe wasn't much fun, but it was manageable. I popped the rear driver's side nut off the tabs. After learning how to access the recall hole, the nut was put back in place and all was well.

A ball joint boot was ripped while installing the subframe. For those of you contemplating this service, find some plastic caps as recommended in the video!

The rest of the assembly went well. Upon finishing and checking my work, I put the key in the ignition and...'click'. It didn't even turn over. I tightened the battery cables a little more, and then it started but didn't quite sound right. The idle procedure was performed at this point. After a short drive, the car had difficulty starting again. It is almost like the battery is dead, though the lights and radio work. The battery charger is on it now in case that is the problem. Any other ideas?

The first drive was good and bad. I already love the TZ clutch and Fidanza flywheel. Shifting is another story. It is VERY notchy and sometimes impossible to get into 1st gear. It does shift into all the gears though. My clutch pedal doesn't seem to adjust--no clicks, no difference. ATF type F fluid was used as recommended, but Ford Friction Modifier has not been added yet. I need input here as well.

Finally I wish to thank you all for your continued support throughout this project. We must all be masochists to own these cars.

beer pizza beer pizza
Tom

 

[masho95]

Congratulations on your own rebuild. It's quite a task and you get a very good feeling for doing everything yourself. On the notchy shifting... How exactly is it notchy, and is it only in first or also second? Are all the gears notchy? Any of them less notchy then the others?

 

[Bank of SHO]

Thanks for all of your help. This job would have gone by much more quickly if not for the heat. It's been like working in a sauna here--no exaggeration.

The shifting is worst in first followed by second. The others are notchy but not like the first two, but still not ggod. Sliding side by side in neutral is not a problem. I suspect the clutch pedal adjustment mechanism is fouled up. Would this affect the shifting? BTW the tranny shifted fine with a punch before installation.

Once in gear the clutch is smooth. The Fidanza exhibits no negatives yet, though I haven't gone above 4k yet. It's going to be tough to tame it for 200 miles.

I hope for feed-back on the tranny. After all of that work, I am worried.

Tomorrow I'll report whether the battery charger solved the starting problem.

 

[olympic]

I have a Fidanza and stock clutch and first gear is sometimes a pain to engage from a dead stop. No grinding, it just doesn't want to go. So I just slide it into second and then up to first and it goes right in.

Type F was only recommended for 89-90 MTX's with the original brass synchros. Since you have a 93, use Dexon-Mercon ATF, Redline D4 or GM Synchromesh.

 

[sdpatt]

It sounds like your clutch is not fully uncoupling. You need to verify that the cable is tensioned. Check the clutch release lever and make sure that you cannot rotate it in either the CW or the CCW direction. If there is any play in the lever, the cable is not tensioned.

Under the dash, press the clutch pedal up with one hand and push the blue pawl where the cable end is landed toward the firewall. You should feel spring pressure resisting your effort. It is this spring pressure that sets the tension on the cable when you lift the pedal to release the ratchet from the clutch pedal quadrant.

 

[masho95]

Um try shifting into 3rd at a stop and then without letting up on the clutch shift directly into first. See if it still gives you problems going into gear.

 

[SHO24V6]

ok

 

[Bank of SHO]

There is a short somewhere in the car. After charging the battery overnight, the car started right up. A few hours later it wouldn't even turn over. Where should I start looking? The battery is almost new and of good quality. I had no such problems before the clutch job.

As far as shifting is concerned, it shifts just fine with the car off. Does this mean anything? With the car on, each forward gear feels double notchy(i.e. feel one notch but car is not in gear yet, second notch and it is).

The release lever seems to be tensioned, but I really think there is something wrong with the tensioning mechanism in the pedal. I have never felt or heard it adjust even with the old clutch. Is it possible to fix it, or do I need to buy a new one? I tried pushing on that blue part, but I don't feel anything moving. I'll try again tomorrow with a better view.

The shifting is terrible. Sometimes it won't go into gear. I wonder if I even needed to refresh the tranny. The problem seems to be elsewhere.

 

[PanamaPat]

Bank of SHO:
There is a short somewhere in the car. After charging the battery overnight, the car started right up. A few hours later it wouldn't even turn over. Where should I start looking? The battery is almost new and of good quality. I had no such problems before the clutch job.

As far as shifting is concerned, it shifts just fine with the car off. Does this mean anything? With the car on, each forward gear feels double notchy(i.e. feel one notch but car is not in gear yet, second notch and it is).

The release lever seems to be tensioned, but I really think there is something wrong with the tensioning mechanism in the pedal. I have never felt or heard it adjust even with the old clutch. Is it possible to fix it, or do I need to buy a new one? I tried pushing on that blue part, but I don't feel anything moving. I'll try again tomorrow with a better view.

The shifting is terrible. Sometimes it won't go into gear. I wonder if I even needed to refresh the tranny. The problem seems to be elsewhere.

My guess is that the clutch for whatever reason is not fully disengaging, thus making it very difficult to shift (especially into first and 2nd). One way you can test for this (and a temporary fix) is to pre-tension the clutch cable manually.

To do so is a bit of a pain the first time, but after you get a feel for it, it takes but a few seconds. You'll probably be doing it regularly if it becomes a temporary fix as the pre-tensioning unloads if the pedal comes up to far or if you manually re-set by pulling up on the clutch pedal.

To pre-tension the cable, slide your driver seat back all the way so you can lay down on your back under the dash. Once there, study the clutch pedal and you'll find a curved white plastic piece that is part of the automatic clutch pawl. The white plastic piece is semi circular and has a finger that is pointing downwards on the back side of the pedal pivot point (strange description - sorry). In any case you want to push that white plastic piece up to pre-tension the cable. You have to push quite hard, but you know when it has tightend the cable as you hear a loud click. Sometimes it helps to push the clutch pedal 1/2 way in, put pressure on the white plastic piece, then release the clutch slowly while holding pressure on the white plastic piece. 1-3 clicks is all you need.

You will notice that the the more clicks you add, the further up the clutch engagement point becomes. I would not add any more clicks than what it takes to make the clutch disengage completely.

Again, I think this is only a temporary fix and is only masking some other problem.

 

[Bizzy]

According to the shop manual, hard shifting can be caused by improper clutch disengagement, the external shift mechanism binding up, the clutch disc installed improperly with the damper springs towards the flywheel, internal damage to the synchronizers or shift mechanism, incorrect lubricant or a sticking blocker ring.

Now, it's easiest to check the things on the outside first (obviously). After that try changing the fluid you put in there. As much as I hate to say it, it sounds more like something internal than external to me. Big question, since you're the one that has been driving the car is this. Did it do this before you changed the clutch? Sometimes when a clutch or pressure plate is going bad it can cause you to grind the gears which can damage the synchros & gears.

Eliminate the external sources of possible problems first, if that doesn't work then I'd pull the tranny and see what it looks like on the inside.

Good luck and don't give up!

 

[Bank of SHO]

Electrical short found and fixed. It was either the loose bolt on starter wiring (the one we don't need to touch) or the anti-seize I put on the starter mounting stud/bolt with the ground connection. The former was tightened, and the latter was cleaned. The car starts up nicely now.

I'm still having shifting problems. I was able to make the adjusting mechanism 'click' per Panama Pat's instructions, but no change occured. The engagement position didn't change either. The car really isn't driveable this way. Most of the time it is a struggle to get it into any forward gear. The cable seems to be tensioned per Scott's input.

Bizzy, there has never been a gear grinding problem. Shifting was getting notchy before the service, but nothing like it is now. Even now the gears are not grinding. Before the clutch job, I switched to GM Synchromesh which made shifting even worse. The clutch pedal adjustment never worked. At least no clicks were heard and no difference felt--before or after the clutch job.

With the ignition off, it shifts just fine through the gears. Does this mean anything or help the diagnosis?

I can't believe it might have to be torn apart again. frown

 

[masho95]

Are all the gears very tough to engage? If so then the clutch setup (PP/TOB/etc.) is at fault. Otherwise try to shift into third before first and then go into first and see if it'll go right in. My 3rd gear engagements and up work perfect but the 1-2 gears are a little tougher, which will be fixed with the next tranny pull.

 

[Bank of SHO]

Does anyone have an answer to this question: With the ignition off, it shifts just fine; does this mean anything or help the diagnosis?

Also, would the difference between ATF fluid and Mercon be great enough to cause the shifting woes?

 

[sdpatt]

With the clutch pedal fully depresed for at least 5 seconds, there should not be any grinding while trying to shift into the unsynchronized reverse gear. If you gently pull the shifter toward reverse with the pedal still pressed and hear a constant speed grind, the clutch is not decoupling the trans from the engine. That is a lack of cable travel, a throwout bearing to pressure plate interface problem or even a badly assembled pressure plate. How well is the cable sheath mounted to the top rib of the transaxle?

I used both the ATF Type F and MERCON III and could not tell a difference.

 

[SHO_Driver]

Are you sure certain you installed the friction disk facing the right way?

 

[Bank of SHO]

I'm ready to tear the car apart again. It seems the general consensus is that I installed the clutch disc backwards.

As long as I'm doing it again, is there anything else I should check? Remember, it shifts fine with the engine off and shifted fine with a punch while the tranny was out. I'd rather not wrestle with the tranny again UNLESS you folks recommend it.

Do the new pinch bolts and nuts have to be replaced again?

Thanks for all of the help.

 

[masho95]

Bank of SHO:
I'm ready to tear the car apart again. It seems the general consensus is that I installed the clutch disc backwards.

Do the new pinch bolts and nuts have to be replaced again?

Do you remember looking at the clutch disc before installation or did you just throw it in without looking? Obviously with the car shifting fine with it off (internals not turning) that's suggestion a clutch/PP/TOB problem. Either something wasn't installed correctly (clutch disc backwards) or a part was bad (pretty unlikely).
As far as the LCA to knuckle pinch bolts and nuts? I wouldn't worry too much about them if they will torque down to the proper amount. I've had 3 tranny pulls (thus needed to remove them) with the same pinch bolts and nuts. And they still torque down properly. Of course, if you have the cha-ching to replace them again go ahead and do it. I'm on my be going on my 3rd set of nuts and bolts after 5 tranny pulls.

 

[Bank of SHO]

At the time of installation it was late and dark outside. It's quite possible that I inverted it even though I thought it was right. Thanks for the input. I just wanted to be sure before taking it all apart again.

The job should go by much more quickly this time as no note taking will be necessary and some experience is under the belt. I just hope the disc is the problem. We'll see soon.

 

[masho95]

Well it sucks to take it all apart again, but trust me it goes ALOT easier the second time. I cut a couple of hours out of my tranny pull time the second time. If you decide to pull it apart again, good luck and I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Bank of SHO]

I just finished tearing the car apart again. It only took me five hours to drop the tranny this time.

I carefully removed the pressure plate and clutch disc only to find it was installed correctly the first time. The side labeled "engine side" was facing the flywheel. This is correct, right? Just in case it is mislabeled, the shallower spring side surface is labeled "engine side". The deeper spring side surface was facing the pressure plate. Assuming this is correct, what is the next step considering what I've posted earlier?