Clutch Question...And poll I guess

[zak]

You know, SHOforum sponsor SHOnut Performance has a heavy duty pressure plate that is made to their specifications (reinforced drive straps) by Clutchmasters. Suspect it has some design elements from the old gmorrell pressure plates, I am lucky to have the priveledge to own one of the old gmorrell pp's myself ;-)

The SHOnut peice is NOT a Clutchmasters Stage I, it leaves the pressure plate fulcrum points, that have been problematic for many, alone. It only has reinforced straps and either better rivets or aircraft grade fasteners in place of the rivets. Josh sells the PP with a ceramic TOB so that both weak spots on the pressure plate are taken care of. If you need more holding power I would go for a Clutchnet disc myself (my plan for when my cammed/head worked 3.2 gets built).

 

[ShoStyle]

Thanks or that info, I will check out SHOsource today. In a hurry to get this Gen l rollin.

 

[ShoStyle]

Do you have a link to the PP on SHOsource, could not find it on their site.....Thanks again

 

[AREA 91]

Do you have a link to the PP on SHOsource, could not find it on their site.....Thanks again

www.shonutperformance.com


Part Description Part Number SHO NUT Price ADD to Cart % Discount Ford Retail
V6 MTX 89-95 Clutches - Click Here to Read Important Notes
Use Loctite on Pressure Plate Bolts as per TSB 93-1-12
SHO NUT Heavy Duty Pressure plate and Valeo disc by Clutchmasters w/CERAMIC TOB (HD straps and rivets, NO pressure plate mods) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING SNP-HDPPCKCU 465.00
Clutchmasters Stage I Clutch kit (HD PP, organic disc, stock TOB) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING CM-S1CK 390.00
Clutchmasters Stage I Clutch kit w/CERAMIC TOB (HD PP, organic disc, CERAMIC TOB) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING CM-S1CKCU 480.00
Clutchmasters Stage III Clutch kit (Double Diaphram PP, Kevlar pucked disc, stock TOB) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING CM-S3CK 600.00
Clutchmasters Stage III Clutch kit w/CERAMIC TOB (Double Diaphram PP, Kevlar pucked disc, CERAMIC TOB) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING CM-S3CKCU 690.00
SHO NUT/Clutchmasters Stage I organic disc only CM-OD 190.00
SHO NUT/Clutchnet 9-puck Fibretuff disc only CM-9P 150.00

 

[ShoStyle]

Got it!!! Thanks again!!!!

 

[93rev2sev]

That failure is not from high horsepower and 3 people have told you that so far, but rock on.

 

[gmorrell]

I can only attribute it to a High horsepower engine and my driving habits.

That is classic failure from aggressive downshifting with poor or non-existent rev matching, it has very little to do with a high horsepower engine. As you've realized, this is a driving habit issue and is easily correctable by learning and practicing some heel-toe action so you can use the right foot to brake and blip the throttle between downshifts. (Heel-toe is a bit of a misnomer that's better suited to old-ass British sports cars. On all three of my 3-pedal cars, I use the ball of my right foot to brake, and rotate my foot at the ankle to blip the throttle pedal.)

When the engine is driving the transmission, the PP drive straps are in tension, as they should be, and the issue of how much torque can be transmitted in the right direction becomes one of withstanding the single shear load on the rivet shanks. When high-horsepower cars de-head the rivets, the straps are generally flat and intact.

When the transmission is driving the engine, the PP drive straps are put in compression. This ****** them off, they spread out, stretching the rivet shank, and eventually lift the rivet head.

Looks like you got a 'Lumium flywheel there, this means your engine decelerates more rapidly than one with an Iron or Steel flywheel, and this makes rev-matching even more important.

 

[Crab Spirits]

Have you guys checked your fork pivot bushings? Only the lower bushing really wears, and it causes the tob to apply crooked. If your quill is worn or loose it gets worse. The next time the clutch is engaged, the 5-7 o' clock area of the clutch will engage first, rather than the whole thing applying evenly. It doesn't stand a chance. Take a look at my lemons thread. I pulled a 12k mile disc out that was ripped apart because of it.

 

[ShoStyle]

That failure is not from high horsepower and 3 people have told you that so far, but rock on.

Well I don't know what it is from, that's why I posted on here, I was going by this article from SHOtimes,


http://www.shotimes.com/SHO4clutch.html

Quote from the article

Increase the strength of the torque straps and rivets, this is where most of us with high HP cars are tearing things up. The torque straps are what transmit engine torque from the pressure plate to the clutch cover, they allow the pressure plate to move in and out to engage/disengage the clutch, and they locate and center the pressure plate within the cover. High RPM shifts can de-head the soft steel rivets that secure the straps or pull the rivets right out of the pressure plate iron. Aggressive friction materials also create problems because they drastically increase the shock loads on the straps and rivets. Huge straps are not the answer either because the strap stiffness and spring constant must be properly matched to the diaphram strength and pressure plate mass, otherwise the clutch could chatter on engagement or the straps would fight the diaphram, reducing the clamp load. Steve Hazard's fabricator has changed to a very strong, stainless steel rivet, which seems to have fixed the rivet strength problem.

I have no doubt it might be my driving, and I'm O.K. with that, I just want the next pressure plate that goes in to be able to handle my bad driving. sloppy downshifts, and reckless need to tear shit up.

That's all.

 

[ShoStyle]

That is classic failure from aggressive downshifting with poor or non-existent rev matching, it has very little to do with a high horsepower engine. As you've realized, this is a driving habit issue and is easily correctable by learning and practicing some heel-toe action so you can use the right foot to brake and blip the throttle between downshifts. (Heel-toe is a bit of a misnomer that's better suited to old-ass British sports cars. On all three of my 3-pedal cars, I use the ball of my right foot to brake, and rotate my foot at the ankle to blip the throttle pedal.)

When the engine is driving the transmission, the PP drive straps are in tension, as they should be, and the issue of how much torque can be transmitted in the right direction becomes one of withstanding the single shear load on the rivet shanks. When high-horsepower cars de-head the rivets, the straps are generally flat and intact.

When the transmission is driving the engine, the PP drive straps are put in compression. This ****** them off, they spread out, stretching the rivet shank, and eventually lift the rivet head.

Looks like you got a 'Lumium flywheel there, this means your engine decelerates more rapidly than one with an Iron or Steel flywheel, and this makes rev-matching even more important.

I appreciate that solid answer, I will have to take better care, I did not have this problem with the steel flywheel, only after I went Aluminum.

Maybe I will go back to the steel, and sell the SHOshop and fidanza, I really do not want to change another clutch and pressure plate.

Will a heavy duty PP handle my bad driving?

 

[TYSHO]

Will a heavy duty PP handle my bad driving?

As said, you want the SHONut PP with the stock lever points and HD torque straps and rivets if you're worried about your driving. When someone like Clutch Masters tweaks the lever points, your driving will immediately jack up the clamp force resulting in bad shifting, delayed shifting, clutch slippage, and maybe a f'ing divorce.

It's about time I find a thread with more people explaining this crap instead of trying to make my point with hard heads who ignore facts.

The best thing to do is learn how to shift, then you can just use a stock clutch. Other than that, I have yet to see a clutch kit on the market you can buy that has everything you want, except for the SHONut kit I just became aware of for $465 [greatest kit you can buy unless you have a blower]. Even the CM Stg 3 with a Ceramic TOB has its problem with the disc. If someone would just sell the CM Stg 3 DDPP by itself, that'd be great so one could throw a Ceramic TOB with it, and order your own clutch disc that won't fall apart like the CM Stg 3 disc.

 

[gmorrell]

I have no doubt it might be my driving, and I'm O.K. with that, I just want the next pressure plate that goes in to be able to handle my bad driving. sloppy downshifts, and reckless need to tear shit up.

That's all.

Your self-effacing candor is refreshing.

The pressure plate itself will hold up just fine, it's the drive straps that are the weak link, and there's almost nothing that will save them from brute compressive forces.

A heavier flywheel would certainly help, it would keep the engine RPM's up between shifts.

Learning to heel and toe is the answer. It's not rocket surgery, there are surely some videos on YouTube which can show you the techniques, then you just need to practice-practice-practice and use it in daily driving. After awhile, it becomes automatic, and voila(!), no more mangled clutches. You don't need to work the footbox like Tommi Mäkinen, but learning to heel and toe will make driving more smooth and satisfying for you, your passengers, and your SHO.

 

[ShoStyle]

O.K. I got it, I will probably smash the next PP no matter what if I do not reel in my driving.....

Thank you guys so much for the info. I am going back to the steel flywheel, I think I have an 18 Lbs flywheel here at the shop somewhere.....

I just do not want to pull this engine again under any circumstance....except for the 3.2 conversion.....

 

[zak]

My plus has every bolt on, top end, UDP's, cams, Lpm, and exhaust available just short of Nitro and SC. All SHOshop supplied. Save for the Y-pipe which I lost in the divorce. .

Dude, you should have gotten a more vicious attorney.

Is this the one you ended up buying?

SHO NUT Heavy Duty Pressure plate and Valeo disc by Clutchmasters w/CERAMIC TOB (HD straps and rivets, NO pressure plate mods) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING SNP-HDPPCKCU 465.00

 

[illSHOyou]

I had stock clutch with ceramic TOB and a 9 lbs flywheel with LSD.
I could do 6,500 rpm launches at the track, 10+ times with no issues. Car ran a best of 14.5 96 mph.

In the end, broke the ring gear. St. Louis SHO has it mounted on his wall somewhere. This was N/A by the way, proves nothing indestructible...

I really don't think the stock ford clutch is bad by any means, and was a good combo on my car with the ceramic TOB. My flywheel didn't have the inertia the stock one did which explained my 6,500 rpm launches.

But in the end the clutch probably had give and with the right driven effort works great. Unless your blowing the stock one apart thats the clutch you should probably be running. If your stock one is slipping real bad at near stock power levels, then something is wrong with your shifting habits.

 

[rubydist]

Will a heavy duty PP handle my bad driving?

it seems to me that its easier, less work and more valuable to learn to drive properly than to pull the trans again after destroying another clutch.....

 

[ShoStyle]

I never had an issue with the clutch friction material, just the PP.
I guess I can learn some control in my life? At least in the driving department.

Has anyone had any experience with Clutchnet?

They are a local distributor/manufacturer, I spoke with them on the phone, claim they actually build the reinforcd PP's for clutchmasters and other companies,

Any one here use them?

 

[ShoStyle]

Dude, you should have gotten a more vicious attorney.

Is this the one you ended up buying?

SHO NUT Heavy Duty Pressure plate and Valeo disc by Clutchmasters w/CERAMIC TOB (HD straps and rivets, NO pressure plate mods) (no PP bolts, buy those below) FREE SHIPPING SNP-HDPPCKCU 465.00

Yeah I had my pipe off the car when I left the Freak to never come back. Small price to pay to get rid of her, **** I would of gave everything I owned to get away from her.....I actually did...LOL

I have not bought a clutch yet, I picked up one from Ebay last December Used unit claimed to have only 7 miles on included a SHOshop flywheel, when it arrived it was torched, had stress fractures on the PP and the flywheel was burnt and out of spec. Turned out to be a 9 1/4 as well, the dude burned me good,

So right now I am looking for a new setup. Gonna look at the SHOnut PP

or

SouthBend?
Clutchmasters?
Clutchnet?
Spec?

 

[TYSHO]

So right now I am looking for a new setup. Gonna look at the SHOnut PP

Best Deal.

or

SouthBend?
Clutchmasters?
Clutchnet?
Spec?

It's like buying skinny jeans, are you buying them think you look cool or do you buy them to cut the blood flow in your legs?

Go head and buy a modified pressure plate, I've had 3 of them give out on me already. Heck, I'll sell you a new one I have sitting here for $100 shipped. It has modified lever points for extra clamping force and heavy duty torque straps. You can go buy a stock disc like stage 1's provide, for $65 at AutoZone. That means, for $165 you have a stage 1 kit minus the stock throw out bearing they provide, where now you can spend $105 to purchase the ceramic throw out bearing. Wow, for $270 you have a unit exactly as a Clutch Masters Stage 1, SouthBend Stage 1, or Spec Stage 1 but with a BETTER throw out bearing and still saving over $100. This is a once in a lifetime deal, what are you waiting on? I'm serious, if you think it's a deal, here it is!!! I don't mind $100 shipped to get rid of something I would never put in my SHO again.