checking timing belt

[rangerj]

DK,

If I understand this right, you are NOT going to replace the timing belt, but are going to correctly position the belt so that the crankshaft and camshafts are properly timed?

Is it also correct that your timing belt had been replaced recently, albeit incorrectly by one tooth?

If this is correct, the next question is for Scott.

Can DK remove the timing belt and put it on as if it were new, that is use the white marks to align the camshaft sprockets with the timing marks and the white marks on the belt? (assuming the white marks have not worn off)

May I also suggest that you e-mail DK the drawing, or pictures, of where the white marks and yellow mark should be on the crankshaft damper/pulley, in case the white paint is gone from his pulley?

DK, did you say you are turning the engine over by turning a wheel? You can turn the crankshaft bolt with a 19mm socket on a 1/2 breaker bar, with the transmission in neutral, much easier.

Rotate in a clockwise manner ONLY. You can go counter clockwise a hair (a small amount), to get the marks lined up, but don't overdo the counter clockwise rotation.

It may help you to know that there are 9 bolts (all 10mm)holding the top timing belt cover on, and there are 8 bolts holding the bottom two covers on. To the left, where the lower two covers are joined is a 12 mm bolt (the head) that holds the two together. The other 7 (10mm) hold them to the block.

While you have the covers out you may want to paint the "0" mark and the "10" mark, as well as the marks on the crankshaft damper/pulley.

It would also be a good idea to clean the threads of the idler pulley adjusting screws, and coat them with anti sieze compound. This makes the belt adjustments much easier.

Check the bearings on your idler pulleys, alternator, and A/C compressor.

This is one of those "you may as well" jobs. While you have all that stuff apart, you may as well do this, or do that, etc.

All of the above is for clearification, and/or suggestions, and intended to help you. Enjoy, rangerj

 

[DavidT]

rangerj, you are correct. I am not replacing the belt. Also, the damper marks are still visible (white in the middle of the 3).
Is the t. belt tensioner pulley behind the middle t. belt cover? If it is, then I will not have to loosen the crank bolt, right? Because I don't see the point in pulling the t. belt off.
If I do have to loosen the crank bolt, can I do the "bump the starter trick" by running jumper cables from the battery to the cables? Do I have to reassemble anything? Also, can I use a closed- in wrench (standard at that) to lay on the frame? (instead of a socket, I don't think the arm of my socket is long enough to reach the frame). Of course, I just had it loosened and off a few months ago, so is it possible to loosen it with my bare hands?
By not putting on a new t. belt, I do not have to touch/adjust the CPS, right?

<small>[ October 11, 2002, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: dkautumna ]</small>

 

[91 SHOplus]

sdpatt:
I will email you the (now defunct) SHO Registry magizine's 3.0L timing belt change procedure....

Hey Scott, Would you also email that to me please?

 

[BeatDaSHO]

if the cps was replaced recently then u don't have to bother touching it. i hope u get finished with it soon so u can experience 220 horsies under you. u'll scream and maybe crap ur pants thumbs_u .

Greg

 

[sdpatt]

I have sent the procedure and I think you can accomplish it without additional disassembly as has been suggested. The catch is that you have to use the wheel or damper to align both camshafts so that the index marks are aligned as shown in the referenced photos at the 12 o'clock position. You can then remove the little door on the lower timing belt cover to expose the 14mm nut on the tensioner pulley. Loosen the nut about 1/2 turn. You will then have to use a 6mm Allen socket to rotate the tensioner and loosen the belt and snug the 14mm nut to hold the tensioner in position. If you can't reach and rotate the Allen fitting, you will have to remove the damper and lower cover. Once the tensioner is swung away to loosen the belt and secured, if you are able to slide the belt off the camshaft pulleys you can finish this job without removing the crank damper and the lower timing belt cover. However, those are not tough jobs if you have done it before so you are not saving too much effort and it would be simpler to ensure the job was done right.

Now with the timing belt off the camshaft pulleys, rotate the crankshaft until the white notch is aligned with the "0" index. Now reinstall the timing belt on the camshaft pulleys. The right (front) side of the belt should be tight and the left side will be loose. Without the help of the white lines on the belt as if you were installing a new belt, this is where you can get one tooth off again. Now loosen the 14mm nut on the tensioner. Now rotate the crankshaft in the clockwise direction until the first, yellow index mark is aligned to the "0" mark on the tab (#1 cylinder to 60 degrees before TDC. DO NOT move the crank in the CCW direction. You will have to go around one more time if you overshoot. Now tighten the 14mm tensioner nut to 25-37 lb-ft and reinstall the door on the cover. Verify the alignment again and put everything back together. You should have all 220hp again.

<small>[ October 11, 2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>

 

[DavidT]

Well...
24 hours later (about 10 hours of labor) I THINK I got it in time, and everything put back together.
Unfortunately, the test drive did not live up to its expectations At WOT I can still hear some kind of sputtering?/restriction mingled in with the awesome roar of the secondaries.
I am going to pull the upper T. belt cover and recheck the timing.
Here is what I did:
Took everything off.
Left the cam pulleys at TDC.
Rotated the crank sprocket to line the WHITE dot up with the line on the lower rear cover.
Reinstall T. belt.
Stupid lines on it are not spaced just right to line up the pulleys EXACTLY with the marks on the cover. Oh well, when I put the belt on, everything looked to be in time. If you wanted to knit pick, the crank pulley was a HAIR to the RIGHT of the mark on the cover. (Is that "Advanced timing?".) BUT,
The cam pulleys had a HAIR of play in them... is that normal. (In other words, I could move them by hand to make all three line up perfectly.)

<small>[ October 11, 2002, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: dkautumna ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

To be sure you have the correct orientation of the pulleys, you really needed to remove the damper, lower timing cover and belt and install it as if it were a new belt. The white marks on the belt are the best guarantee that the timing is correct. The marks should be right on the money. Before you go through all the effort to do it again, I recommend that you get a new timing belt (Gates T248, RockAuto.com, $34.73) and do the procedure correctly.

 

[DavidT]

Scott, that is a new timing belt (Gates T248- 3 months old). Also, I did do the whole procedure. Oddly though, I put my wrench to the crank bolt and got it free fairly easily with my own "brute" strength Is that normal? Should that even be possible?
When I said that I lined up the crank sprocket "dot" with the mark on the rear lower timing belt cover, meant that I removed the crank damper, all timing belt covers, etc... I lined it up by putting the crank bolt back in, with the crank pulley OFF, using the bolt, I rotated it until the dot and the mark lined up. I did use the lines on the belt as a guide when reinstalling it.
DOes this sound "right"?
Honestly though, I am pretty sure Terry did this procedure right when he did the 60K. Could there be another problem that is KEEPING THE TIMING ********?

WHERE IS THAT BLASTED SPOUT CONNECTOR? ... I can't find it. SOmeone said that if it is not connected good, it will retard the timing...
Well, I'll find out for sure later today, I will recheck the timing...
Whoa!!!!! Scott, I just reread your last post on page one eek! aNd double eek!

Now rotate the crankshaft in the clockwise direction until the first, yellow index mark is aligned to the "0" mark on the tab (#1 cylinder to 60 degrees before TDC.

YELLOW mark???????????????????????????
I lined up the white one?????
Am I misunderstanding something?

<small>[ October 12, 2002, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: dkautumna ]</small>

 

[shojuan]

Lining up the yellow mark is for setting the belt tension.

Rick

 

[DavidT]

I just checked the timing, and wouldn't ya know it... everything lined up (white mark on the crank pulley with the 0 on the tab, and cam pulleys with the marks on the cover)
As I stated earlier, I don't think this boosted me back to the SHO standard, of course, I was exhausted when I test drove it... BUT
I did notice one thing...
Are the marks on the belt supposed to realign with everything when it is at TDC? 'Cause the marks on the belt at the cam pulleys are one tooth to the right of where they are supposed to be. Would this be a tension problem, or is this normal?
BTW, I set the tension the way Mark does on the 60K video... by increasing the load and letting it relax, then tighten it down.

<small>[ October 12, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: dkautumna ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

You are never likely to see the white marks on the timing belt line up again after the first rotation of the engine. They are only used to install the new belt. The belt "walks" around the pulleys so that the same tooth on the pulley doesn't touch the same spots on the belt every time around.