Catch cans

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BlueSHO

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Will a catch can void your powertrain warranty? As much as these engines love to build up carbon on the back of intake valves and certainly could benefit from the use of catch cans I wondered if anyone had any experience with their factory warranty being denied.

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BlueSHO

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Catch can? Carbon build up???
To catch the oil vapors before they coat the back side of the intake valves and carbon up with the high temperatures in the head.

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BlueSHO

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Hello BlueSHO, Where do the oil vapors come from?

Blow by from the piston rings under boost from the turbos. Crankcase gets pressured up and pcv valves suck the oil vapors into the intake track.
 

Livernois Motorsports

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Will a catch can void your powertrain warranty? As much as these engines love to build up carbon on the back of intake valves and certainly could benefit from the use of catch cans I wondered if anyone had any experience with their factory warranty being denied.

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The carbon build-up "issues" and catch can need are something that is INSANELY overblown. The fact is that carbon build-up is a byproduct of all DI (especially TDI) engines. From Ford to Ferrari, Lexus to Lamborghini they all have the same "issue". The reason why this is so overblown is because TDIs are new to us in America. We are so far behind the foreign car curve that when something fails and we cannot figure out a real reason as to why...blame the circumstance that you are unfamiliar with. Easy out. Domestic techs had NEVER seen anything like the EcoBoost before its inception. Now the GM wrenches will have a similar canary with GM's all-new LTG turbo motor. The first few that fail out in the real world will have a mythical issue that is inexplicable, therefore will need an overthought solution.

The fact on the "need" for a catch can is that if your vehicle does not have an oil consumption or build-up issue inside of your intake there is nothing wrong. The best ways to avoid any issues is to use the best fuels available to you in your area, and mod responsibly. Do not buy EBay tuners, use gas from that station that gets fresh fuel once a year or potentially create a vacuum issue inside of your PCV system. This is a topic on all EB platforms. Especially the new ones like the S550 Mustang. There are threads that have 4-500 yes HUNDRED pages because some guy's bone stock car "needs" a catch can. Not one of our builds uses a CC. It just takes some vigilance to make sure that there is not a consumption, blow by or build-up issues in your car.
 

SHOdded

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The F150s have had more issues than the SHOs. Like LME says, keep an eye out, and implement only if truly needed. Can't speak for warranty issues though. Try to find a tunefriendly dealer before any mods.
 

Pintony

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OK Yea Duh.....
I used to have oil in my AK Miller turbo back in the early 80's. Boosting back then W/O a waste gate, shoving 25psi boost through a 2.0L
would make a mess on the under side of the hood from all of the crankcase PSI. Yea, you guys are saying 25psi.. RIGHT! Well yes. I had a 2.0L Pinto that ran on PROPANE.
Then later modified to run on 100% alcohol with a water injection system with more alcohol for high boost.
But yes I had a general mess until I started running the pvc system via catch can "witch was really a V8 juice can with tubes soldered into the sides" into the exhaust with a 2 psi valve that pushed all that oil into the exhaust in into the comp's windshield and LUNGS!!!!;)

I am not sure how many times the local announcer told the crown at Gateway racetrack that I had blown up. Everyone would come rushing over asking....
Ahhh.... the good old days...
 
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BlueSHO

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All I know is there have been many turbo ecoboost engines 4 and 6 cylinders that developed a misfire when cold and have had heads replaced under warranty because Ford does not have an approved intake cleaning procedure. My plan is to use top tier fuel and Pennzoil platinum full synthetic oil on my new SHO. I'll also get an extended warranty for when the 3/36 is over.

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SilverSH0

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Has anyone ever put a catch can on the clean side of the PCV system? From my understanding, oil gets into the CAC by oil back feeding through the clean side of the PCV. It would seem to me a catch can might help keep the oil out of the CAC.
 

BlueSHO

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Has anyone ever put a catch can on the clean side of the PCV system? From my understanding, oil gets into the CAC by oil back feeding through the clean side of the PCV. It would seem to me a catch can might help keep the oil out of the CAC.
I think the JLT separator is on the clean side.

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Livernois Motorsports

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Has anyone ever put a catch can on the clean side of the PCV system? From my understanding, oil gets into the CAC by oil back feeding through the clean side of the PCV. It would seem to me a catch can might help keep the oil out of the CAC.

If you do not notice any oil in places where it shouldn't be leave the PCV system alone! You can cause serious damage to your engine by altering the crankcase pressures.

"...The fact on the "need" for a catch can is that if your vehicle does not have an oil consumption or build-up issue inside of your intake there is nothing wrong. The best ways to avoid any issues is to use the best fuels available to you in your area, and mod responsibly. Do not buy EBay tuners, use gas from that station that gets fresh fuel once a year or potentially create a vacuum issue inside of your PCV system.".
 

SilverSH0

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If you do not notice any oil in places where it shouldn't be leave the PCV system alone! You can cause serious damage to your engine by altering the crankcase pressures.

"...The fact on the "need" for a catch can is that if your vehicle does not have an oil consumption or build-up issue inside of your intake there is nothing wrong. The best ways to avoid any issues is to use the best fuels available to you in your area, and mod responsibly. Do not buy EBay tuners, use gas from that station that gets fresh fuel once a year or potentially create a vacuum issue inside of your PCV system.".
I have had oil in my CAC so I have noticed oil in places it shouldn't be. I always get 93 octane from the local Shell stations on my stock car so gas/tuner is not an issue. Simple question, does a catch can alter crankcase pressure? Because my other option is to disconnect the hose from the intake track, plug the ******, and put my own breather filter on the end. This would not alter crankcase pressure but would also serve the purpose of not allowing oil vapors into the CAC (that reduces cooling ability)
 

Livernois Motorsports

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Yes, they do. Many CAC's can alter pressures so much that they can force failures. Just because you have oil in the can doesn't mean that there is an issue. The super hard rings inside of the EB cars take a LONG time to break in and seat completely. A new car (>~10,000 miles) will have that "issue" occur, because break in has not occurred. If blowby were a real universal issue we would:

a, make a catch can
and
b, use them.

We have never had to install them on any build that we have done here.
 

SilverSH0

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Yes, they do. Many CAC's can alter pressures so much that they can force failures. Just because you have oil in the can doesn't mean that there is an issue. The super hard rings inside of the EB cars take a LONG time to break in and seat completely. A new car (>~10,000 miles) will have that "issue" occur, because break in has not occurred. If blowby were a real universal issue we would:

a, make a catch can
and
b, use them.

We have never had to install them on any build that we have done here.
I'm not talking about pressure change from the CAC, I'm talking if there's any pressure change from a catch can. I have a stock SHO that I always fill with Shell 93 octane gas, and it has 75k miles. Regardless, I had oil in the CAC that I removed with a pump this winter. This is a common issue and there are several threads on this forum with how to remove the oil. Bottom line is oil inside the CAC that can be measured with the dip stick is NOT normal.

Here's how I understand the issue of oil accumulating in the CAC, so please tell me what's wrong with my understanding. The PCV system has a dirty side with the PCV valve on the rear valve cover. Then there is the clean side of the PCV system on the front valve cover. Under non-boost operation there is a vacuum in the intake that is used to draw crankcase vapors (which contains oil vapor) out the rear valve cover through the one way PCV valve. The air being drawn from the crankcase has to be replaced so air is drawn in from the clean side of the system (the front valve cover). This is simply a tube connected to the air intake tube but behind the filter (air is at ambient pressure). Basically, this works just like every PCV system on almost every other vehicle. With this operation everything works as normal and oil vapors pass into the intake manifold and get burned.

Under boost operation the intake manifold is under pressure. This boost isn't fed into the crankcase because the one way PCV valve prevents this. But what this does is force the PCV valve to be closed until boost is removed or the crankcase pressure gets higher than your boost levels. Either way this would build pressure in the crankcase which is bad for every engine I've ever dealt with. However, there is that tube on the front valve cover that is just a tube connecting the front valve cover to the air intake tubes. That air intake tube is at a pressure of roughly 1 atmosphere (or whatever ambient is at the driving location). So the pressure that's built up in the crankcase is going to vent out through the clean side of the system and into the air intake tubes. This air is then drawn in through the turbos, into the CAC, the oil vapors condenses in the CAC and fall to the bottom. That's my understanding on how the oil gets into the CAC and it makes sense because I can see oil in my intake tubing that appears to start from this area. For my car it's used a lot on trip driving down the interstate. At interstate speed, it's under boost (not sure how much but I can hear the BOV vent when I turn off cruise control) and feeding the oil laden crankcase vapors through the CAC.

What I'm inquiring about doesn't really involve the CAC. I'm wondering if I placed a catch can between the front valve cover and the air intake tubing (the clean side of the PCV system) would that change pressure? Regardless of the catch can or not, the pressure at the air intake tube is still 1 atmosphere. It's a matter of how much pressure the catch can adds if any. What I'm trying to do is keep oil vapors from getting into my intake tubing and I see two options here.

The first cleaner option is to install a catch can on the clean side of the PCV system (on the tube between the front valve cover and the air intake tubing). But I'm trying to find out if this would cause an air restriction and cause extra pressure to build inside the crankcase. I would think it would but you have me second guessing this. My second option is to disconnect the PCV clean side tube from air intake tubing and put on my own filter. This would work with identical pressures of the stock system. Under normal vacuum operation it will still draw air in through the same distance of hose with the same pressure at the open end. The only difference is under boost operation, instead of feeding back into my air intake tubing it would feed back into the open atmosphere. Obviously Ford cannot implement this solution because it's venting oil laden vapors into the atmosphere (as was done in the old days) and emissions regulations don't allow this anymore.

My question is very simple, would adding a catch can on the clean side tube of the PCV system increase pressure? Ideally I would like to catch the oil and dispose of it. But if it's bad for my engine, I'll vent it.
 

BlueSHO

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Very well said SilverSHO. My concern is if a catch can is installed will that void your Ford warranty which I think it will. From my understanding the JLT CC is only on the clean side but I'm not 100% sure. I've got a brand new SHO and want it to last a long time oil and carbon free of the intake tract.

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Livernois Motorsports

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Adding a catch can can alter pressures to the point of causing a failure. There is no argument about that, regardless the platform. There have been several failures from PCV mods. The easiest way to be alerted to there being an issue is that under normal loads there will be blue smoke that comes from your exhaust. Threads that waiver between multiple issues cause confusion, and ultimately mass panic. That is how this became such a giant topic for discussion.

AND YES IN MY MULTITASKING I DID ADD AN A IN CC...TY.
 

SilverSH0

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Very well said SilverSHO. My concern is if a catch can is installed will that void your Ford warranty which I think it will. From my understanding the JLT CC is only on the clean side but I'm not 100% sure. I've got a brand new SHO and want it to last a long time oil and carbon free of the intake tract.

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I'm not too concerned with carbon in the manifold, I'm wanting to keep it out of the CAC since there is excessive amounts that accumulate there.

Since it appears catch cans might alter operating pressure I'll go with the second option. I'll remove the hose from the air intake tubing, plug the barb on the tubing, and add a breather filter to the clean side PCV hose. I'll route that hose down and let it vent to atmosphere under boost. I don't have a warranty but if I did, I would hook that tube back to it's spot if needed.

Adding a catch can can alter pressures to the point of causing a failure. There is no argument about that, regardless the platform. There have been several failures from PCV mods. The easiest way to be alerted to there being an issue is that under normal loads there will be blue smoke that comes from your exhaust. Threads that waiver between multiple issues cause confusion, and ultimately mass panic. That is how this became such a giant topic for discussion.

AND YES IN MY MULTITASKING I DID ADD AN A IN CC...TY.
Thank you for your help. I'll go with the option of venting it through a filter to make sure pressure stays the same.
 

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