Hello I have a 1993 3.2L that has been sitting idle for years. I start it every summer and move it but this year she would not start. Had it towed and changed the fuel pump and filter they got it to run poorly. When you shut it off it wont start again have to leave key in on position and wait 10 min. then she will start again. went to pick her up and now she wont start at all. Fuel is somehow leaking through the exhaust. I am at a loss any help or ideas
Car wont start now
- Thread starter SHOTUNES
- Start date
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NoSlo
SHO Owner
Idle relearn procedure helped someone with the exact same circumstances. However, they didn't get one good start out of the car. If the idle air control valve is not working well or is not controlled correctly, you might need to make your own idle with the gas pedal.
Fuel doesn't really have a pathway to the exhaust except through the exhaust valve if unburned. It would take a lot of fuel, and hot cats would burn that fuel. Water condensation in the exhaust might be fooling you with its drips.
You can confirm the fuel pump is humming away under the back seat for two seconds every time you switch the key to the run position. If it doesn't reliably run every time, the CCRM or one if its internal relays may be corroded. The PCM also gets its power through a CCRM relay. It may take up to 15 seconds of running (10 key cycles) to pump fresh gas from the tank through the fuel system, to saturate the filter, and back through the return line. Fuel pressure should be maintained at 30PSI at the rail diagnostic port for up to a minute after pumping.
If the car starts only about 1/3 of the time, but after repeated attempts you can get it to start, the camshaft position sensor may be on the fritz. That would cause no-run, not rough-run.
If you can get it running and leave it running for a while, some potential problems may clear themselves: sticky IAC, sticky injectors, fouled plugs, etc.
One part that could have gone bad that would make for poor running and make for actual fuel flooding the intake is the fuel pressure regulator. It uses engine vacuum to regulate pressure with a rubber diaphragm, and if this is broken internally, besides bad pressure, the engine can suck fuel through the regulator into the front of the intake. Apply a hand vacuum pump to its hose and see if it will hold 15PSI vacuum, or if instead you get fuel in the hose.
Fuel doesn't really have a pathway to the exhaust except through the exhaust valve if unburned. It would take a lot of fuel, and hot cats would burn that fuel. Water condensation in the exhaust might be fooling you with its drips.
You can confirm the fuel pump is humming away under the back seat for two seconds every time you switch the key to the run position. If it doesn't reliably run every time, the CCRM or one if its internal relays may be corroded. The PCM also gets its power through a CCRM relay. It may take up to 15 seconds of running (10 key cycles) to pump fresh gas from the tank through the fuel system, to saturate the filter, and back through the return line. Fuel pressure should be maintained at 30PSI at the rail diagnostic port for up to a minute after pumping.
If the car starts only about 1/3 of the time, but after repeated attempts you can get it to start, the camshaft position sensor may be on the fritz. That would cause no-run, not rough-run.
If you can get it running and leave it running for a while, some potential problems may clear themselves: sticky IAC, sticky injectors, fouled plugs, etc.
One part that could have gone bad that would make for poor running and make for actual fuel flooding the intake is the fuel pressure regulator. It uses engine vacuum to regulate pressure with a rubber diaphragm, and if this is broken internally, besides bad pressure, the engine can suck fuel through the regulator into the front of the intake. Apply a hand vacuum pump to its hose and see if it will hold 15PSI vacuum, or if instead you get fuel in the hose.
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luigisho
SHO Member
How old is the fuel in the tank?
Very old. I have not driven her in years. Only once or twice each summer has she started and drove around for ten minutes. Forgot to say plugs were also changed this time. Always starts and drives some squeals and such but can be driven away each time. Not this year she started for 2 seconds to never restart. Also I was hearing the fans and fuel pump stay on constant with key on. Not my normal 2 sec. priming sound. Fuel pump was changed though and they had it running rough when I tried got new constant fuel pump sound and no start. They say fuel is coming through the exhaust system now and don't want a fire. At a loss.
luigisho
SHO Member
I would be suspect of fuel that sits too long in the tank. Is the battery/alt providing enough power? I would also suspect the CCRM now with the pump/fan issues.
sperold
Last to Know
After it has sat for a few days, put some "quick - start" in the intake tubing and see if that changes anything.
I doubt if that is fuel in your exhaust system, more likely water which is condensation.
Look for codes, and pay attention to that EGR system.
You can pump all the old fuel from your tank, especially easy since you say the fuel pump is running all the time with the key on.
Don't worry too much about the fans running at this point, a lot of SHOs have the fan come on when you first turn the key, but most shut off after awhile. And yours might too.
There is a filter sock on the fuel pump and an in-line filter on the passenger side near the rear wheel; which one did the shop change?
Don't go back to the shop that did the work.
I doubt if that is fuel in your exhaust system, more likely water which is condensation.
Look for codes, and pay attention to that EGR system.
You can pump all the old fuel from your tank, especially easy since you say the fuel pump is running all the time with the key on.
Don't worry too much about the fans running at this point, a lot of SHOs have the fan come on when you first turn the key, but most shut off after awhile. And yours might too.
There is a filter sock on the fuel pump and an in-line filter on the passenger side near the rear wheel; which one did the shop change?
Don't go back to the shop that did the work.
luigisho
SHO Member
Injectors? water in the fuel? You have verified good spark at the plugs? You did not replace ignition components and accidentally wind up with the wrong firing order?
NoSlo
SHO Owner
Fans should only run if AC is on or the engine is too hot. The fuel pump should run for only the key-on cycle time. That they don't behave right lets us know that either the ECU or CCRM is sick (or have been substituted with the wrong one) - if rodents haven't been shorting out delicious wires.
The ECU commands injectors and idle based on many sensors, along with fans and pump. The "DIS" electronic ignition module and two position sensors run ignition. The CCRM supplies the PCM with relay power when the key is turned on, and the PCM uses the CCRM for fan and pump control.
One must be also informed by the symptom and which components might cause that. The disconnected vacuum hose of the pressure regulator should not be leaking fuel from the pressured rail, it is so easy to check and yet still is ignored below....
No code reader is required, only a wire with spade terminals (or even a paper clip) shorting two pins of the diagnostic connector, and then the check-engine light blinks codes for either actively-discovered faults or stored memory codes. The procedure is here.
The ECU commands injectors and idle based on many sensors, along with fans and pump. The "DIS" electronic ignition module and two position sensors run ignition. The CCRM supplies the PCM with relay power when the key is turned on, and the PCM uses the CCRM for fan and pump control.
One must be also informed by the symptom and which components might cause that. The disconnected vacuum hose of the pressure regulator should not be leaking fuel from the pressured rail, it is so easy to check and yet still is ignored below....
No code reader is required, only a wire with spade terminals (or even a paper clip) shorting two pins of the diagnostic connector, and then the check-engine light blinks codes for either actively-discovered faults or stored memory codes. The procedure is here.
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NoSlo
SHO Owner
Does this guy have me on ignore or something??
luigisho
SHO Member
did you remove the fuel?
Ok update I have a Performance Plus Chip put in new 2002. Seems the chip is loose and is causing ton of issues now it wont seat securely hit bump causes chip to shift and dump fuel run poorly etc. Any ideas should I change chip out all together or figure out how to keep it snug.
Why don't you remove the chip and get the car running normally first. I had surging idle issues with a Ted B. LPM chip after a tranny rebuild so I just removed it. Car ran fine after going through the idle relearn procedure.
luigisho
SHO Member
well that's important info. Those things are notorious for getting loose and causing the car to act up. I would get rid of it. Doesn't do much anyway unless you have a larger MAF that won't run right without it. No forced induction no need for a chip or a bigger MAF either.
SHOMON
95 MTX
I went thru the same exact problems with my 95 ATX. No start, fuel in the exhaust, constant fuel pump and fans. I changed the fuel pump and CCRM and everything was the same. I should have listened to my mechanic friend who told me from the beginning to REMOVE THE CHIP.
Can’t find old factory chip. Have to keep looking. Been 17 yrs since I replaced it. Runs fine while chip is secure. Did dump all old fuel. But the chip moving around caused all this ****. Just need to secure chip better. Any suggestions.
There is no factory chip, just the ECU computer that you plugged the chip into. Disconnect the battery, remove the chip, and do the idle relearn procedure
luigisho
SHO Member
What zoom said. The thing will function fine by uplugging the aftermarket eprom chip in the back and a power off reset
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