Car developed problems after changing my accelerator cable. Now with test results!

[trainguy1989]

I changed my accelerator cable today and then took my 91 3.2 MTX on a spin today. When I pulled into my Apt. complex the car died on me. Did not start back up right away, about 5 min afterwards it did start to only run ten minutes and die again. Waited 5 min again and she fired up and then she just ran and ran without shutting off. I have taken her on road trips many times without any problems and the front and top 60k were done when the 3.2 motor was put in the car about December of 2010. Its just hard to trust her right now. I pulled codes which are:
511 - Read Only Memory(ROM) test failure. (have LPM)
157 - Mass Airflow Sensor fault, low voltage. (I have a 80mm MAF with a LPM from ShoSource)
214 - Cylinder identification circuit failure.
542 - Fuel Pump secondary circuit fault.
557 - Fuel Pump primary circuit fault.

The car acts like it is a CPS(Have no code for it). Will shut itself off and if you wait a little bit it will start right back up. I can't find a coolant leak anywhere (Never did take the timing covers off) and can't smell coolant or have lost any.

Wondering if it is a CCRM because of the Fuel Pump codes. The pump was replaced with a Walbro 155LPH about 8k ago and have pressure at the rails. What would cause a 214 - Cylinder identification circuit failure? CID? DIS?

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

The 552 is a junk code.

The cam sensor might be failing.

 

[rbruso]

I had similar codes that I traced back (yesterday) to a loose connector at the IRCM. It's possible you might have a loose connection somewhere. Does the problem happen most often when you hit a bump?

Check all the connectors leading to the control module and the ones running along the rear bank by the firewall. Did you disconnect any wiring when you replaced the cable? If so, double check those as well.

You can also try tapping the connectors and sensors you can get to while the engine is idling to see if this is the issue. My clue was when I slammed the hood in frustration after checking the other connections and the car died. Less than 10 minutes later I was up and running flawlessly.

 

[rubydist]

214 is a sick cam sensor, or bad connection/wiring somewhere.

the fuel pump codes can be disregarded, because they show up when the engine stalls.

the mafs code could be important or not, I'm not sure if that always shows up w/ the 80mm mafs?? if not, that could be part of the stalling - its possible that a connector in the mafs/tps/iac circuit got bumped during your throttle cable swap, and that may provide intermittently bad data to the pcm. I'd check all those connections.

 

[trainguy1989]

The 552 is a junk code.

I did not have a 552 code. What did you mean?
Code 157(Mass Airflow Sensor fault, low voltage) be caused by a LPM and a 80mm MAF?

Well I cleared my codes and ran the car some more. The car died after 10 min of driving. After about 20 min the car started back up. and ran for about another 3 min and died again. During that 3 min the car was stumbling like it was struggling for fuel. Waited another 20 min and it started and ran for less then a min. I did not get the 214(Cylinder identification circuit failure) code again. I did some more research on the 557(Fuel Pump primary circuit fault) and read that the CCRM can cause the pump to shut off. It just seems like the fuel pump is overheating and shutting itself off. after it cools it starts again. That would explain why car ran for a shorter period of time when I tried to start it. What do you guys think? I am hoping it is a CCRM!! Don't want to drop the tank.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

I did not have a 552 code. What did you mean?
Code 157(Mass Airflow Sensor fault, low voltage) be caused by a LPM and a 80mm MAF?

Well I cleared my codes and ran the car some more. The car died after 10 min of driving. After about 20 min the car started back up. and ran for about another 3 min and died again. During that 3 min the car was stumbling like it was struggling for fuel. Waited another 20 min and it started and ran for less then a min. I did not get the 214(Cylinder identification circuit failure) code again. I did some more research on the 557(Fuel Pump primary circuit fault) and read that the CCRM can cause the pump to shut off. It just seems like the fuel pump is overheating and shutting itself off. after it cools it starts again. That would explain why car ran for a shorter period of time when I tried to start it. What do you guys think? I am hoping it is a CCRM!! Don't want to drop the tank.

Sorry I was referring to the 542 code.

 

[rubydist]

I would swap in a known good ccrm at this point, if you have already confirmed that the connector to the ccrm is installed and tightened properly.

 

[trainguy1989]

Changed out a the CCRM and the car still stalled after running for a while. Ran codes again and got the 211 code. I do not know whether or not to trust this code because I have always have had this code since I got the car. Had this code before and after the 60k and car never stalled and ran great. When it stalls the tack drops pretty fast, but when I go to crank the tack needle jumps around. Should I swap in a known good DIS and see if this fixes the problem?

Thanks for the help guys!!

 

[TopGunnYFZ]

Changed out a the CCRM and the car still stalled after running for a while. Ran codes again and got the 211 code. I do not know whether or not to trust this code because I have always have had this code since I got the car. Had this code before and after the 60k and car never stalled and ran great. When it stalls the tack drops pretty fast, but when I go to crank the tack needle jumps around. Should I swap in a known good DIS and see if this fixes the problem?

Thanks for the help guys!!

Id put my .02 on the cam sensor! Sounds like what my buddies car did.

 

[rubydist]

well, the sudden stalling is compatible with the 211 - pip circuit failure, so I think that is the area to be looking. it could be the crank sensor, or it could be wiring to that. I'd look that over very carefully and (if it was me) put in a new crank sensor. it could also be pcm related. I'm not sure if it could be dis related or not.

 

[rbruso]

Also double check the computer ground by the PS reservoir. If it's loose it can cause just about anything to happen.

And just to cover all the fuel-related bases, have you gone into the trunk and pushed down (really push. Wiggling your finger a bit helps) the reset button on the inertia switch on the driver's side? When I lived down a washboard road it would slowly jiggle out over time. It is not, unfortunately, as on/off as we would hope it to be.

I'm just having a hard time thinking it's a crank sensor when it suddenly happens just after doing an unrelated repair. It could be coincidence, and weirder things have happened, but I'm still thinking it's elsewhere.

Was the crank sensor replaced (and gapped to spec) during the front 60K? Have you checked those connections? Also, unplug the DIS module and make sure the case isn't cracked. If you have a multimeter you can check to make sure the bolts for the DIS module case have good continuity to ground. The module grounds through one of the bolts to the intake and through the ground strap right above the PS pump to the firewall.

 

[LJRuddy]

Put a fuel pressure gauge on the rails and monitor the pressure when the car stumbles and dies. Lets see if it is loosing pressure during this stalling instance.

 

[trainguy1989]

Testing

Well I did a bunch of testing today. Fuel pressure was anywhere form 32 to 40 PSI. When the car stalled the fuel pressure did not drop. So the fuel system is OK. When the car died I swapped in a good know DIS and the car started right up, then later stalled so that rules out the DIS. I had some sort of logic probe(kind of like a test light). It has alligator clips for both the positive and negative and two LEDs(red for positive and green for ground):


I probed the cam sensor and it flashed between red and green rapidly, so I guess the hall effect on the cam it working correctly. Probed the power coil form the DIS and it had power. Probed the signal input at the DIS from the CPS and it did not flash. The color from the it showed was orange, both red and green lit at the same time, but the car was still running. Weird. You would think you would see the red and green flash rapidly like the cam sensor. When the car died I probed the CPS again and the CPS just stayed red while cranking, no red and green flashing you would expect from the hall effect. The weired thing is that I can find no signs of water leaks, but the car acts like the water pump is leaking on the CPS. Can this sensor just go bad? Each time the car starts up after stalling and waiting 20 minutes, the car runs for shorter intervals, unless I let it sit over night. This leads me to think something is up with the CPS. Would that be a safe assumption guys?

Thanks for your help guys!!

 

[rubydist]

you just confirmed my suggestion in post 10 to change the crank sensor. yes, they do just go bad and do not need coolant leaking on them to do so. it is now time to change the crank sensor.

 

[trainguy1989]

you just confirmed my suggestion in post 10 to change the crank sensor. yes, they do just go bad and do not need coolant leaking on them to do so. it is now time to change the crank sensor.

Thanks, the less than 1,000 mile SHOSource sensor took a crap. Is there a brand of CPS you recommend? Is the $60 CPS from Autozone a good brand?

 

[TwistedMunky]

my az sensor has been great. But with anything there can be a dud here and there. Maybe shosouce will warranty it?

 

[rbruso]

When you replace the sensor, check it for signs that the metal vanes have been hitting. Improper gap (either not set right or if a screw comes loose) will end up causing the vanes to munch the sensor.

As for the flashing from the crank sensor, the cam sensor only has two positions (one big vane that is a semicircle) and rotates at 1/2 engine RPM. The crank sensor has three vanes and operates at full engine RPM. So the crank sensor would have six events (three on, three off) for each engine revolution. The cam sensor would have one event (either on or off) every engine revolution. As such, it's not a surprise you can distinctly see the flashing from the cam sensor and just a blur from the crank sensor.

Though it cost time and debugging you have at least determined the crank sensor is the correct one. Imagine how you would have felt if you swapped the sensor and ended up with a loose plug that was the actual cause. To me, it's always worth it to check easy/free before doing complicated/expensive

 

[trainguy1989]

I know there is always a chance of getting a new dud CPS sensor from the store. I have looked around at CPS senors and have found a $60 sensor at Autozone. But, the ford dealer here has new old stock CPS for $135. Is it worth it to go with OEM? I just don't like tearing the front of the motor down all the time because the CPS took a crap. Looking for one to last a while.

Thanks!!

 

[LJRuddy]

I know there is always a chance of getting a new dud CPS sensor from the store. I have looked around at CPS senors and have found a $60 sensor at Autozone. But, the ford dealer here has new old stock CPS for $135. Is it worth it to go with OEM? I just don't like tearing the front of the motor down all the time because the CPS took a crap. Looking for one to last a while.

Thanks!!

Every crank sensor I have swapped in has been the cheapest one I could find. What are the odds that you would get 2 bad sensors in a row anyway? I'd say save your money for a cold beer or 4 after the swap.

 

[Mrhappytuzi]

Yeah i swapped out two BWD advance auto crank sensors.. upon the second time redoing it i realised the the single wire connector going to the crank sensor had a thread of wire holding itself together.. that fixed my issues.