Bob stayed home to get "fixed"

[tery]

I am really happy to find out that it is NOT the cam chains making that random clacking noise, thanks to the stethoscope, it is for sure something down in the tranny or clutch set up. That's not the greatest news but I wasn't ready to get into the cam chains stuff just yet. Someday I'll have to I suppose, but for now. more diagnosis is called for to determine if it is a clutch issue of "gear rollover, as suggested as a possibility. Anyway. Here's a couple vids of Bob running. The motor sounds very good and you don't hear the random clack until you get into the driver's side wheel well. Also with the steth, I can hear the random noise a bit on the clutch arm and more on the tranny housing. If anyone can tell me how to do more "looking" to see if I can nail down just what it is, that of course would be greatly appreciated.

This is the engine that has the 9lb flywheel and although it got better with the clutch pedal adjusted all the way up..(self adjuster had slipped and wasn't pulling clutch apart fully)...it will still pop out of 1st gear if you try to ease the clutch out. If you just drop it. like pop the clutch, is doesn't pop out of first and/or if you give it a 3-3.5k rev before you pop the clutch it does just fine, but again, if you try to slip it out at low rpm, it pops pretty violently out of first gear. No problems at all with the other gears although sometimes it feels like it doesn't wanna go into third without some parallel shifting..like down to four and then back up to three, rather than two to three. Does this sound like a throwout bearing issue maybe...And would that have a random clack noise if it was bad or damaged??
tks in advance.
T

 

[TimboSHO]

If it has a ceramic throwout bearing, that will make noise. Does the noise go away when pushing the clutch pedal?

 

[sperold]

I have found that the clutch system makes a lot of random noise at an idle. In my case, it does not affect the performance at all, but the "chatter" can heard beyond the wheel well area sometimes.

The jumping out of first gear (I think) is a separate issue.

Having the aluminum flywheel with a steel insert is another wild card that I have no experience with, but I don't think it contributes to your issue at this point.

I would work with the shifter assembly first and see if the jump out issue improves. I would confirm that every mounting bolt is tight and check that everything slides or rotates properly and that all couplings are complete and working well.

All of my issues with manual transmissions have been the Throw Out Bearing (TOB) issue, where it fails, and chews the pressure plate fingers and eventually breaks -off a few of the fingers.
I would plan on having to install a new clutch assembly which is a fairy big deal. All of your sub frame bushing bolts have to be removable, your exhaust studs have to withstand taking off the nuts that hold your Y-pipe. So that job looks after all the hard stuff. Having done that, removing the tranny to have a look becomes fairly easy (if the shifter thing does not work out). But you would need help determining what is wrong with the first gear assembly at that point.

 

[tery]

thank you very much guys for your ideas and help. I will try the clutch in suggestion right away this week and see what I hear different. And ...when you suggest shifting assembly and bolts, are you talking inside the car under the console or at the clutch arm and coming through under the car and to the tranny linkage stuff/???

If I do have to pull the tranny, the exhaust bolts and subframe shouldn't be too bad because the last owners put in aluminum bushings...which I don't like very much... and then I put on the Y pipe and exhaust system just a few months ago cause the seller had sold off the Dynomax system that it had. I got a catless Y pipe on the forum here from Andrew and finished with a new Walker system to the tailpipes.
Thanks again, I've got the rest of the winter to mess with it, But if it needs tranny pulling, I'll look for someone who knows what they're doing cause I just don't have the
tools/stands/space and am alone and don't think I could do it myself..
T

 

[rubydist]

my thoughts are also along the line of shifter issues - perhaps a shift fork is bent or worn badly, perhaps the shift linkage is not attached right, etc.

unfortunately, with shifting issues there isn't a whole lot that can be done from the outside. the good news is that the trans is pretty straightforward, so its not as daunting of a task as it first seems.

 

[sperold]

It will be difficult to get the labour part of the clutch job done for $500.00, only a really good shop can do it for that price but they are out there. Having all the fasteners off lately really helps a lot. The clutch kit is usually a bit over $200.00 but they go on clear out sometimes for less, just be careful to get the 9 3/4" clutch, not the 9 1/4".

I think the clutch job is one of the things to farm-out, as it is quite a job for someone working alone. Have a look at the rack while you are at it as it is a bear to work on as well.

 

[Off Road SHO]

Gear "rollover" is a common and harmless noise. If you don't hear it while accelerating or decellerating it is not anything big. Do the clutch pedal in trick and see if it goes away.

Tom

 

[jimtash]

It will be difficult to get the labour part of the clutch job done for $500.00, only a really good shop can do it for that price but they are out there. Having all the fasteners off lately really helps a lot. The clutch kit is usually a bit over $500.00 but they go on clear out sometimes for less, just be careful to get the 9 3/4" clutch, not the 9 1/4".

I think the clutch job is one of the things to farm-out, as it is quite a job for someone working alone. Have a look at the rack while you are at it as it is a bear to work on as well.

Someone can do it alone as long as they have a lift and allow the subframe to swing down instead of removing it completely. Otherwise you are right.

 

[TimboSHO]

Someone can do it alone as long as they have a lift and allow the subframe to swing down instead of removing it completely. Otherwise you are right.

You can do it alone on a lift with 2 transmission jacks, one for each side of the subframe. I did it this way for many years at the transmission shop, and have done it many times on SHOs since then

 

[rubydist]

I have done trannys by myself, as well as swapping engines, subframes, etc.
it is easier with a helper, but certainly something one can do alone.

 

[tery]

I finally got around to listening while someone else pushed in the clutch and the noise DOES go away, so....what does that mean Tom?? Bad throwout bearing??

 

[intimdatr]

Is it a Ceramic throw out bearing?? They are VERY noisy and i mean it. They sound like death.

However if it isnt a ceramic it may be getting worn and time for a replacement. In which case i high recommend the ceramic.

 

[rubydist]

or maybe the clutch cable needs adjusted so the tob runs w/o rattling with clutch released.

or maybe the input shaft has a bad bearing that rattles.

 

[tery]

So. if the throwout bearing is bad or weak, would that be the cause of it popping back out of first gear unless you give it 2.5 rpms and drop the clutch as opposed to slipping and matching rpms like normal driving?? It is pretty violent and of course accompanied by a gggrrraaahhh grinding noise jus as it comes back into neutral position
tks in advance for your expertise,
T

 

[kevinspann]

Could be a bad trans. My first one had a bearing that failed, so the gears didn't mesh properly. So I could get it into first at times, but it would pop out, or not go in at all.

If you put it in first with the car off, start the car, and let the clutch out, does it pop out of gear? If so I'd be looking for a spare trans, or parts to fix the one you have.

 

[sperold]

Fixing the one problem does not solve the second problem.
The TOB issue is solved by installing the clutch kit that includes a new TOB. I have the ceramic TOB and have not noticed any noise. I chose it, hoping that it would last longer that the standard TOB, but it has not been in long enough for me to have an opinion on that.
The "jump out of gear" issue can only be solved by adjusting the shifter (hopefully) or by removing the tranny and working on that first-reverse area of the tranny by looking at the fork or shaft.

 

[tery]

thank you Kevin, I'll try that and report

 

[tery]

And...Sperold...when you say adjusting the shifter, what are you specifically referring to?? The linkage under the shifter under the car, or at the tranny??To me,,,it doesn't feel right when I put it into first..Like when the engine is off and you move through the shift pattern, when you put it in first, I can't feel anything, like there's nothing there, where as the others you can feel a normal amount of friction as the shifter moves into each gear, but again with first, it's like nothing, no friction...more to follow

 

[sperold]

I would start by looking under the boot in the console. I would remove enough of the console to be sure I saw everything. Just confirm everything is there and nothing opens up or moves strangely in the first gear engagement.

More likely, I would concentrate on the so-called linkage under the car. With someone else rowing through the gears, I would look at all the things that move back and forth and all the things that rotate even though they are hard to see. Offer some resistance by putting a screwdriver tip on the parts entering the transmission and see if the rowing is the same. Look for anything that seems odd in the 1'st gear sequence.

It will be a stroke of luck, if you discover anything this way, as without knowing what a correct functioning system looks like, it will be hard to spot a variance. But if something is compromised, it usually shows itself, even to the untrained eye.

Be sure the shifter is firmly attached at the tranny fasteners as there are bolts that hold the assembly on and they screw into a boss that is there for that purpose.

 

[rubydist]

most likely, your popping out of gear issue is due to a bent shift fork. so, while I always look for the easy stuff like sperold suggests above, I would not expect to find something there that fixes it...