Bleeding whole brake system?

[SHO SPD]

If I wanted to bleed the whole break system, do I need to bleed every line from each wheel? I would assume thats the way to do it, starting from the front going to the back. Your suppose to replace your brake fluid every 2 years, so I know mine is due.

 

[shojuan]

Yeah you gotta bleed each wheel. Start from the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and work your way towards. Keep in mind that the old fluid in the master cylinder is going to be darker (because it has absorbed moisture) than the fluid in the middle of the lines. So if you just bleed until you get the first bit of clean looking fluid out, you are still going to have old fluid backed up behind it. You can always suck some of the old fluid out of the master cylinder resevoir before hand. Just be careful not to introduce air into the M/C when doing that.

Start at passenger rear, then driver rear, then passenger front, then driver front when bleeding.

 

[SHO SPD]

Ok, thanks, sounds like fun!

 

[rangerj]

SHOSPD,

To add a little to what SHOJAUN has said, start by stirring up the brake fluid in the resivoir.
(stir up the dirt and crap)

Then siphon out the fluid in the resivoir without going below the bottom of the resivoir. Pour in fresh fluid to fill the resivoir. If your wife, or mother, has a turkey baster, these work fine as a siphon! (Seriously, get a bulb syringe at Auto Zone for a couple of dollars.)

Use a good quality dot 4 brake fluid, such as Castrol GT LMA (low moisture activity), ATE Blue or ATE Gold, Valvoline's new synthetic blend, or Ford's high performance brake fluid. All have high heat ranges and resist moisture absobtion.

There is a bleeding sequence recommended and I think it is Right rear, left front, left rear, right front. Someone jump in and correct me if I got it mixed up, please.

Bleed until you get fresh fluid in all of the lines, and all of the air out of the lines.

Bleeding the brakes with fresh fluid every other year is OK, but the recommendation is for the fluid to be changed every year.

Do not put cheap brake fluid in your system. Put a minimum of a quart of fresh fluid through the system. DO NOT USE DOT 5 SILICONE. (period)

Very, very expensive dot 4 racing fluid, with high heat ranges, is OK but not necessary unless you are racing the car regularly. rangerj

 

[Bizzy]

buy some speedbleeders or the napa version at your local napa store. www.speedbleeder.com

They make bleeding the brakes out/changing the fluid an easy task I pretty much siphon out the resivoir, then fill with new fluid. Follow the which wheel first recomendations, and then keep topping off the resivoir. I can usually complete a "flush/bleed" in about 30 min. and you with the speed bleeders you don't even need to take the car off the ground or remove tires. I do 1qt of the Valvoline dot4 synthetic stuff every 6 months or so. That way I'm assured that the lines are cleans and I have very little moisture in the system. For the $5 for the fluid it's worth it, and it's fast to do with the speedbleeders, it's a 1 man job.

 

[shojuan]

When I bought speedbleeders for my 89 (I bought 639560 for front and rear 10mm X 1.0 pitch, 35mm length ) they only fit the rear brakes. They were too big to fit the fronts. I also had a set of 639550 which is 8mm X 1.0 pitch, 34mm length and those were too small to fit the fronts. Anybody know what size the Gen I front brake bleeder screws are?

 

[shojuan]

Don't tell me the fronts are 3/8"-24! Stupid Ford! Metric on the rear and standard on the front? Say it ain't so. rant

 

[SHOZ123]

Ford uses a diaganol brake system so blleding is done as rangerj said.

From Helm...

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Manual Bleeding
  
  The primary and secondary (diagonal split) hydraulic brake systems are individual systems and are bled separately. Bleed longest line first on individual system being serviced. During complete bleeding operation, do not allow brake master cylinder reservoir to run dry. Keep master cylinder reservoir filled with High Performance DOT-3 Motor Vehicle Brake Fluid C6AZ-19542-AB or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESA-M6C25-A, DOT-3. Never reuse brake fluid that has been drained from hydraulic system or has been allowed to stand in open container for an extended period of time.
  
  1. To bleed brake system, position suitable box wrench on bleeder fitting on brake wheel cylinder. Attach rubber drain tube to bleeder fitting. The end of tube should fit snugly around bleeder fitting.
  
  2. Submerge free end of the tube in container partially filled with clean brake fluid and loosen bleeder fitting approximately three-quarters of a turn.
  
  3. Have assistant push brake pedal down slowly through its full travel. Close bleeder fitting and return the brake pedal to full release position. Repeat this operation until air bubbles cease to appear at submerged end of bleeder tube.
  
  4. When fluid is completely free of air bubbles, secure bleeder fitting and remove bleeder tube.
  
  5. Repeat this procedure for the opposite diagonal system. Refill brake master cylinder reservoir after each system is bled and install master cylinder reservoir cap and gasket. Make sure diaphragm-type gasket is properly positioned in master cylinder reservoir cap. When bleeding operation is completed, fluid level should be at MAX line to 4.0 mm (0.16 inch) below.
  
  6. After disc brake service, make sure disc brake pistons are returned to their normal positions and shoe and lining assemblies are properly seated. This is accomplished by applying brake pedal several times until normal pedal travel is established.
  
  7. Check pedal feel. If brake pedal feels spongy repeat bleed procedure.
  
  
  Pressure Bleeding
  
  For pressure bleeding, use bladder-type bleeder tank only, such as Rotunda Brake Bleeder 104-00064 or equivalent.
  
  WARNING:
  NEVER EXCEED 344 KPA (50 PSI) PRESSURE IN THE BRAKE BLEEDER TO PREVENT INJURY.
  
  Bleed longest lines first. The bleeder tank should contain enough new brake fluid to complete bleeding operation. Use High Performance DOT-3 Motor Vehicle Brake Fluid C6AZ-19542-AB or equivalent fluid meeting Ford specification ESA-M6C25-A, DOT-3. Never reuse brake fluid that has been drained from hydraulic system. The tank should be charged with approximately 69-206 kPa (10-30 psi) of air pressure.
  
  1. Clean all dirt from master cylinder reservoir cap.
  
  2. Remove brake master cylinder filler cap (2162). Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir with specified brake fluid. Install pressure bleeder adapter tool to brake master cylinder and attach bleeder tank hose to fitting on adapter. Master cylinder pressure bleeder adapter tools can be obtained from various manufacturers. Follow instructions of the manufacturer to install adapter.
  
  3. If the rear disc brake calipers are to be bled, use a suitable box wrench on bleeder fitting at the RH rear disc brake caliper. Attach bleeder tube snugly around bleeder fitting.
  
  4. Open valve on bleeder tank to admit pressurized brake fluid into brake master cylinder reservoir.
  
  5. Submerge free end of tube in container partially filled with clean brake fluid and loosen bleeder fitting.
  
  6. When air bubbles cease to appear in fluid at submerged end of bleeder tube, close bleeder fitting. Remove tube. Replace rubber dust cap on bleeder screw.
  
  7. Attach bleeder tube and repeat Steps 4, 5 and 6 at LH rear disc brake caliper.
  
  8. On front brakes, repeat Steps 4, 5 and 6 starting at RH rear disc brake caliper and ending at LH disc brake caliper.
  
  9. When bleeding operation is completed, close bleeder tank valve and remove tank hose from adapter fitting.
  
  10. After disc brake service, make sure disc brake pistons are returned to their normal positions and shoe and lining assemblies are properly seated. This is accomplished by applying brake pedal several times until normal pedal travel is established.
  
  11. Remove pressure bleeder adapter tool from brake master cylinder. Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir to the MAX line to 4 mm (0.16 inch) below. Install brake master cylinder filler cap.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

 

[LaTechSHO]

shojuan:
Don't tell me the fronts are 3/8"-24! Stupid Ford! Metric on the rear and standard on the front? Say it ain't so. rant

we find ourselves in a predicament rick..... i'm sure most guys here would like to tell you the truth and say that they are in fact 3/8"-24 .... but then again you don't want us to tell you that...... what to do.... what to do.....

i've got an idea..... they are 9.525mm-0.945 threads per mm

there... now its metric wink


Louis

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: LaTechSHO ]</small>

 

[rangerj]

To add a little to what SHOZ123 has posted:

Before attempting to open a bleeder that has been closed for a long time first clean any rust that has formed arround the bleeder. A wire brush works well for this.

Spray a little penetrating oil on the bleeder then try to open it using a 6 point socket. If it will not open try tapping on it to "shock" the threads. Try to open it again.

Repeat as necessary until the bleeder will turn. Once it will turn you can use a box wrench or open end wrench to turn the bleeder. You are far less likely to round off the hex with a 6 point socket.

Clean the area arround the bleeder if you are going to change the bleeder, say with new "Speed Bleeders". The idea is to keep crap from getting in the caliper.

DOT 3 fluid is the minimum fluid standard required, but DOT 4 will give you higher boiling temperatures.

STAY AWAY FROM DOT 5, SILICONE FLUID. The seals in your system are not compatible with DOT 5 fluid.

ALWAYS use FRESH brake fluid. If a can or bottle of brake fluid has been open, and not used within 30 days, throw it away. rangerj

 

[ThumPa]

rangerj:
SHOSPD,


There is a bleeding sequence recommended and I think it is Right rear, left front, left rear, right front. Someone jump in and correct me if I got it mixed up, please.

Bleed until you get fresh fluid in all of the lines, and all of the air out of the lines.

Bleeding the brakes with fresh fluid every other year is OK, but the recommendation is for the fluid to be changed every year.

Do not put cheap brake fluid in your system. Put a minimum of a quart of fresh fluid through the system. DO NOT USE DOT 5 SILICONE. (period)

Very, very expensive dot 4 racing fluid, with high heat ranges, is OK but not necessary unless you are racing the car regularly. rangerj

thumb beer You hit the nail right on the head. Right Rear - Left Front - Left Rear - Right Front.

 

[Porkchop]

I like the speed bleeders!!!!

How much do they run, does anyone know?? I need to replace my brake booster so I will need to bleed the system and I think I will upgrade to the dot 4 fluid while im at it!

 

[rfiltz]

The speed bleeders are not that expensive, maybe $10 a set or so from Jegs. While you're at it, get some premium brake fluid from Shonut. It's called ATe and comes in blue and amber colors. It's the same fluid for both, but allows much easier fluid changes as you can see when the color changes. The stuff comes in metal cans, so it lasts longer on the shelf. It comes from Germany and is the stock fluid for BMW and maybe Porshe? SUpposedly it has better performace as well when it gets hot, or gets a little water in it. Only about $10 a liter. More than your basic fluid, but won't break the bank.

 

[Shoaz]

You can order speedbleeders directly off their website:

http://www.speedbleeder.com/

IMHO they're not expensive and definitely worth the money if you do your own brake bleeding.

 

[Porkchop]

Hey, thanks for the heads up ... I will check out the shonut fluid, if its as good as you say, then I will get some

**edit** I just checked, speed bleeders are $7 a piece and $15 for polished steel

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Porkchop ]</small>

 

[SHOZ123]

I have speed bleeders on my '97. Quite frankly I don't see the need. A 3' piece of 1/4" ID clear hose and a can for the old fluid do just as well.

 

[SHO SPD]

Yeah that DOT 5 stuff absorbs moisture too.. bad combo, only for racing applications.

Thanks for the replys guys

 

[Shoaz]

SHO SPD:
Yeah that DOT 5 stuff absorbs moisture too.. bad combo, only for racing applications.

Thanks for the replys guys

DOT 5 is often okay as long as you don't have ABS. It's very moisture resistant, which is what makes it attractive, but it cavitates (i.e., foams) when forced through ABS orifices under pressure. Makes for air in the lines and all the unfun things that go with that.

 

[LaTechSHO]

are you guys talkin about the DOT 5 silicon based fluid? ... or the DOT 5.1 high temp NON-silicon based fluid?... cuz the dot 5 stuff is a no-no in a system that hasn't been setup for it... ABS or not


Louis

 

[rangerj]

Good catch Louis.

My reference was to Dot 5 silicone brake fluid. Just so there is no misunderstanding, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT PUTTING DOT 5 SILICONE BRAKE FLUID IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT MADE FOR IT.

The seals in our cars are not compatible with silicone dot 5, and dot 5 is not compatible with ABS (period). rangerj