Glue Maker
The V8 Paradox
I’m offended when people debadge their beautiful Ford machine with defacing Yamaha logos. 
We need to shut up before we get this topic deleted.
atx to mtx swap
- Thread starter darth_zamiel
- Start date
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I’m offended when people debadge their beautiful Ford machine with defacing Yamaha logos. We need to shut up before we get this topic deleted.
Mr Anonymous
Tire Wall
No, Yamaha designed (and may have made) the heads too (who actually built/assembled the heads and cams is still something Ford won't divulge). I've yet to see a Duratec motor with solid bucket tappets, and if anything the Duratec heads were substantially based on the V6 SHO heads.Petersho1 said:
In any case, in the interest of honesty and full disclosure, the MTX conversion in progress being talked about here (and at TCCA) is indeed a Duratec-powered NON-SHO Taurus. There's no reason to be deceptive here. Sure, if it can be proven to work on the Duratec SLO, then by extension it may be possible on the V8 SHO, but until one is finished and actually runs and drives it's just dreaming.
Bradley
New Member
Mr. Anonymous said:
Maybe im missing somthing and over reacting...but i got a few points...
Im not trying to be deceptive at all, if you ook at the links, is quite obvious its a duratec car. I just figured you guys would be intrested as it may work for you guys. (considering the trannys are simmilar, they sit on the same subframe and fit into the same car) Sorry for trying to help.
Second: Why do you think your heads are so hot? You have the same stroke and boe, yet the contour havs bigger valves and virtually the same valvetrain components. The SVT heads are extrude hone. Not tryin to be mean, but you seem to want to turn this thread into a my SHO is better than your SLO thread.
Im im wrong about what you meant, im severly sorry.
I dont want this thread to get locked. I just wanted to sho you guys the progress the me and Bob are very proud of, considering no one else has yet to have the bals to try it.
Brad
PS: This is not a "dream" and especially a "Pipe Dream", i have the thing mounted! Look at the pictures and youll see that it WILL be in my car.
Bradley
New Member
Petersho1 said:
In simplified form yes, but not really.
THe bore and stroke are the same.
The Pistons are closer together than the duratec 2.5 or 3.0, thus the block has a redesign
THe valves are smaller (based on infomation shared between me and paul nimz)
One of the main things that will make or brake the 5-speed sho project is "is the bolt patter of the bell housing the same?"
If someone would like to DONTATE a working, complete v-8 sho block, id be glad to see if the bolt pattern is the same
Brad
luigisho
SHO Member
Good stuff Brad. I hope everything works out for your car and hopefully it can crossover to the v-8 sho as well. Don't take any of the seemingly opposing points personally. It seems to happen when anyone attempts out of the box projects. Even those you may see as naysayers are interested in how things develop. Just shake it off and keep going with the updates. 
Mr Anonymous
Tire Wall
Brad, I'm not trying to put you on the defensive.Bradley said:
This is after all the SHO Forum, and I'm just trying to point out that the conversion you are working on is on a Duratec-powered V6 Taurus, and not a V8 SHO. This thread was started by someone asking specifically about an MTX conversion of a V8 SHO, and I wanted to be sure that nobody mistakenly believed that a V8 SHO MTX conversion was in progress.
I didn't say anything in any way to start a "this car is better than that car" argument, I'm simply trying to point out that THE TWO MOTORS ARE DIFFERENT. As I also pointed out, while there are marked similarities between the two motors, they are still different. Again, while it is logical to deduce by extension that if it can be done with a V6 Duratec it can probably be done with a V8 SHO, they are still different enough to warrant caution to anyone thinking about doing this. Ideally, this probably should have been started as a stand-alone thread in the General Discussion forum.
Perhaps "deceptive" wasn't the best word to use, but until my first post to this thread, there was really no clear mention in this thread that this was not a SHO you were talking about. I'm sure it was probably an unintentional omission, but again since this is the SHO Forum, I wanted to be sure that anyone reading this thread in the future was clear about what motor was involved in this conversion. I can't say how long those links over to the TCCA forum will be valid (housekeeping, pruning, disaster, etc. could cause those links to be invalid some day), so this has the potential to become confusing down the road for anyone reading THIS forum.
In any case, until someone is actually driving an MTX V8 SHO, I stand by my statement that it is still just a dream. Not an impossible dream, but still just a dream. I didn't say your V6 Duratec project was a dream -- re-read the last sentence of my last post. In fact, I applaud both you and Bob for undertaking the project! Heck, if I'm not mistaken, that's my old engine hoist the whole shebang is sitting on in several of your pix!
Kirk and I have been working on a V8 SHO MTX conversion off-and-on for over a year. We've tried mating an MTX-75 to the V8 SHO motor. We've put an MTX shifter in a Gen III chassis. We've taken a number of measurements and done quite a bit of testing to see what it would take. We have no doubt that it's possible, we just haven't had the time to dedicate to it, which is one of the reasons we don't do a lot of talking about it publicly. I already know from reading the threads over at TCCA that there are going to be different hurdles to overcome when it comes time to do this on a V8 SHO.
Bradley
New Member
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I hope your project goes as well as mine has so far...
And i know what you mean about not having the time....it takes alot!
Id love to know what progress you have made (in deatail) about the parts used, and maybe i can share some om my information with you. Please shoot me a pm with your current information!
Brad
And i know what you mean about not having the time....it takes alot!
Id love to know what progress you have made (in deatail) about the parts used, and maybe i can share some om my information with you. Please shoot me a pm with your current information!
Brad
Patrick Norris
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
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Bradley said:
Not to take this topic even more off topic but this says it all in the this engine is the same as that engine debate. The sho v8 and duratec series motors are not the same they share the same design features because that is what works it has nothing to do with being built buy yamaha or Ford. You never would say a Chyrsler 3.0 is the same engine as a Ford 3.0 because they are the same displacement. Displacement sizes are the way they are because that is the most efficient size for a engine to be 4,6,8,12 cylinders it doesn't matter. Just because you can divide 2.5/6 then mulitpy buy 8 doens't make a duratec 2.5 the same engine as a sho v8.
I don't see why anyone has any right to critisize anyone for attempting something. Everyone complains they can't get something or find parts for something then when someone finally has the time/money/knowledge to attempt it it gets turned into some big thread on why it can't happen.
Also if you think you should input your ideas into a thread why don't you explain your point don't just say it "you are wrong"
For instance:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glue Maker
I thought the only difference between an ATX and MTX computer was a shift schedule?
I'm afraid that there's quite a bit more to it than that.
Why don't you explain the differences instead of just shooting a guy down.
Like engine load taken at the transmission affecting timing and fuel meter, or pre shift ignition timing in a system that normally operates with the huge delay of a aging slushbox or what does the computer do if you press the clutch pedal while the engine is still spinning 6000rpm.
I have every confidence that the computer programming is the least important part of this swap. There are tons of very bright people that can make a car computer do just about anything.
"Not to take this topic even more off topic but this says it all in the this engine is the same as that engine debate. The sho v8 and duratec series motors are not the same they share the same design features because that is what works it has nothing to do with being built buy yamaha or Ford. You never would say a Chyrsler 3.0 is the same engine as a Ford 3.0 because they are the same displacement. Displacement sizes are the way they are because that is the most efficient size for a engine to be 4,6,8,12 cylinders it doesn't matter. Just because you can divide 2.5/6 then mulitpy buy 8 doens't make a duratec 2.5 the same engine as a sho v8. "
I just repeat what Ford sad. SHO is not complete new engine. they take on the table what they have (v6 2.5) and design v8. So is the v8 different then v6- Yes and No- it's depends on your point of view. For us v8 owners who thinks about MTX it's 'Yes' because what Brad&Co have done. As I know there is the some tranny bolt pattern, so " I see the light in the dark".
And yes Mr. Anonymous you are right it still just a dream until someone make it.
I just repeat what Ford sad. SHO is not complete new engine. they take on the table what they have (v6 2.5) and design v8. So is the v8 different then v6- Yes and No- it's depends on your point of view. For us v8 owners who thinks about MTX it's 'Yes' because what Brad&Co have done. As I know there is the some tranny bolt pattern, so " I see the light in the dark".
And yes Mr. Anonymous you are right it still just a dream until someone make it.
Axianator
I am a banana!
Patrick,Patrick Norris said:
It was never my intention to "shoot a guy down", nor was it ever my intention to offend anyone. If this has happened, then I sincerely apologize. The reason I didn't answer Glue Maker's question with a more detailed reply (something for which I'm unfortunately known) is because I didn't want to hijack the thread with loads of information which may not pertain to the subject at hand. Please forgive me for trying to extend a little courtesy.
As for Brad's programming obstacles, I never meant to imply that it would be impossible for one to perform the MTX swap and not have an EEC to control the works, only that the task of adapting and modifying the EEC for such a task would be more involved than most people think. I don't doubt that there are many bright people in the community who will be able to help Brad with his EEC reprgrogramming; I just wanted everyone to know that there was more to the V8 SHO EEC than just a few "shift schedules".
As for Brad and his project, I have already congratulated both him and Bob G. for the work that they have been able to accomplish thus far. I think that anyone who is able and willing to proceed with such a project deserves a lot of attention and respect. Originality and innovation are two of the most important qualities in a community like this, which is why I give both of them props for the work that they have done and continue to do.
In closing, I would once again like to apologize to anyone that I may have offended in this thread.
Off Road SHO
Moderator
The computers are different in more ways than just control of the ATX shift points. There are also differences in which pin-outs feed which injectors. Don't ask me how I know that. 
Tom
Tom
shoteen95
isn't a teen :D
ooooooo
did anyone catch that episode of Rides on TLC where they put a v8 from a GS430 into an IS300 with a 6 speed from a supra?!!!
that was badass
lol
sorry for the outburst, it just came to my mind when i started reading this thread.
I would buy an mtx gen 3 in a heartbeat! I cant wait for the DIY kit with the plug in chip and trans mounting kit
did anyone catch that episode of Rides on TLC where they put a v8 from a GS430 into an IS300 with a 6 speed from a supra?!!!
that was badass
lol
sorry for the outburst, it just came to my mind when i started reading this thread.
I would buy an mtx gen 3 in a heartbeat! I cant wait for the DIY kit with the plug in chip and trans mounting kit
Bradley
New Member
Off Road SHO said:The computers are different in more ways than just control of the ATX shift points. There are also differences in which pin-outs feed which injectors. Don't ask me how I know that.
Tom
For the sake of simplicity, lets assume were talking about the duratec swap. I could use the 2.5 PCM with reprograming, but im gonna use my stock one. All i need modified is the tranny fault codes need to be removed.
Brad
SHOwn the way
New Member
This old brit Terry Haines ( ex ford engineer ) said it can be done. He wanted to use my genIII when my roommate had it, but my roommate didn't have the cash to start the project.
I know Terry is dieing for someone to attempt the swap. He wants to do this swap. He's not much of a fan of V8's but he really like the SHO V8 and see alot of potential. He knows the in's and out's of the duratec cars
I know Terry is dieing for someone to attempt the swap. He wants to do this swap. He's not much of a fan of V8's but he really like the SHO V8 and see alot of potential. He knows the in's and out's of the duratec cars
