Another new clutch in less than two years?!?

[SHOpar]

I've been having problems lately with the clutch not fully disengaging, especially when the car is cold and has been parked for more than a few hours. It finally got to the point that, when cold, that I could only get it into 1st at a stop after throwing it into reverse and hearing the wonderful sound of grinding gears, so I dropped it off at the shop yesterday.

I've had very good luck with the shop it is at, and they were the ones that replaced the clutch a year and a half ago as well as about 10 years when I first bought the car. The first time they replaced the clutch, I got a good 10 years and 80K out of the clutch. This time around I got maybe 15K and 1.5 years out of the job. Fortunately they have a great warranty on clutch replacements, which is 2 years on labor and lifetime on parts.

I talked to the shop yesterday, and they said something is definitely hanging up, and that they were going to tear it apart this morning. My guess is the pressure plate fingers and throwout bearing are toast.

Not wanting to do face this same dilemma in another two years, I was thinking I might ask them if they would install a standard SHO NUT clutch kit with the ceramic TOB, and I'd cover the cost difference between the SHO NUT kit and the standard Valeo kit they would normally install, and even be okay with not getting the standard lifetime warranty if it means I won't have to come back in another two years.

What do you guys think? Is the standard SHO NUT clutch kit and ceramic TOB a good option for a daily driver with stock power? How well will it hold up, considering the car doesn't get beat on that much and I usually have great luck with clutches (my first car in high school had 180K on it before the stock clutch finally bit the dust).

Thanks for any input!

 

[NORMAN]

How's the clutch cable? Is the clutch cable bushing present at the attachment point on the transaxle? How about the throw out bearing quill sleeve? My guess is something might be afoul if it wasn't simply the bad quality of your last clutch set especially if it was re-manufactured.

 

[93rev2sev]

Well, I'd be interested to see how the quadrant and cable acted. They work together to keep the correct amount of contact between the TOB and fingers when you're foot's not on the pedal. If the cable is hanging up or otherwise isn't smooth, the spring in the quadrant won't be as effective. And, obviously, if the quadrant or spring is acting up or you have a habit of resting your foot on the clutch pedal .. even with very light pressure, the TOB will know about it.

 

[itwonder]

SHO clutches seem to be a crap shoot -- the quality of the Valeo rebuilds seems to very considerably, and it's the pressure plate that seems to be the variable. When the supply of new OEM pressure plates dried up, we were basically screwed.

 

[SHOpar]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I checked the quadrant, cable, and cable bushing where it attaches to the transaxle. Everything looked great and appeared to be functioning well. I'm sure the shop inspected all of these items as well (they specialize in clutch replacements and have seen their fair share of SHOs), because I don't think they want to pull the trans and replace the clutch again, as it's all under warranty this time around, and on their dime (including labor).

I'm sure my last clutch kit was all brand new, as they say they never use rebuilt kits on their jobs since they warranty labor for two years and lifetime on parts. They said not only are the rebuilt kits garbage, but they would cost them too much in warranty work and unhappy customers.

As I said before, I'm pretty easy on my clutches; I never rest my foot on the clutch pedal, the car is always in neutral with the clutch engaged at stop lights, and I rarely even launch the car hard. My first clutch lasted 80K, and that was with several track days, a hill climb, a couple trips to the drag strip, and lots of hard miles from being young and in college. :angelnot:

 

[itwonder]

Thanks for the responses so far.


I'm sure my last clutch kit was all brand new, as they say they never use rebuilt kits on their jobs since they warranty labor for two years and lifetime on parts. They said not only are the rebuilt kits garbage, but they would cost them too much in warranty work and unhappy customers.

Impossible, As I said, there are no new clutch pressure plates for the SHO available anywhere, and have not been for some time...regardless of what your shop says. Tell you what, if they have a source for brand new stock pressure plates, post it here and if it checks out I'll send you 20 bucks.

 

[SHOpar]

SHO clutches seem to be a crap shoot -- the quality of the Valeo rebuilds seems to very considerably, and it's the pressure plate that seems to be the variable. When the supply of new OEM pressure plates dried up, we were basically screwed.

Like I said in my previous post, I'm pretty certain the shop didn't use a rebuilt unit on the last clutch, but maybe there's problems now even with the "new" pressure plates coming out of Valeo? I just don't understand why our cars seem to have so many clutch issues. My '79 Celica had 180K on it before the first clutch, my '91 Sentra got a clutch from the next owner at 120K, and that was only because they had to pull the trans to repair 5th gear, my Tacoma had 150K on it when I sold it with the original clutch, and my F-250 got one at 140K mainly because the DMF was dying and it's whole life has been towing heavy trailers by both me and the previous two owners.

 

[SHOpar]

Impossible, As I said, there are no new clutch pressure plates for the SHO available anywhere, and have not been for some time...regardless of what your shop says. Tell you what, if they have a source for brand new stock pressure plates, post it here and if it checks out I'll send you 20 bucks.

Huh, now that's interesting. Maybe the shop doesn't even know that?

On that note, what about the clutch kit from SHO NUT? Is that a rebuilt unit as well? This time around I want to buy a kit that will last, whether it's SHO NUT's or some other vendor, so if anyone can recommend a good kit, please let me know. I told the shop I'd call them tomorrow so we can figure out where to go from here.

Also, does anyone know about how long it takes to get a kit shipped from SHO NUT?

Thanks guys!

 

[AREA 91]

As stated, there are no "NEW" pressure plates available. Every single one is a rebuilt unit.

I would HIGHLY recomend the SHO NUT clutch kit with the ceramic TOB.
The ceramic TOB prevents premature ware on the pressure plate fingers.

I also HIGHLY recomend the teflon coated TOB fork bushings. I will not install a SHO clutch without them.

I also recomend that the quill sleeve be replaced. Make sure to use green loctite/sleeve retainer.

 

[itwonder]

It would be wonderful if there was a source here in the US that rebuilds pressure plates instead of having to use those overseas rebuilt Valeo ones that every brand seems to use. I wonder about things like Southbend's DXD Rally clutch. Problem is, it sure is an expensive and time consuming job to try them out.

 

[220ksho]

It sounds to me like your shop did not use a new repair sleeve. If the TOB is not riding smooth on the quill, it will feel terrible. Also, if there's too much clearance between the bearing and quill, it won't contact the fingers evenly, and you'll have premature finger wear and noise. This could explain the symptoms you have at cold, the quill and inside of the TOB get gummed up.

And as AREA91 noted about the forks, these little things go a long way in pedal feel and pressure plate life.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

We have a few clutch options: SHO Source

They are all rebuilds but we recommend the South Bend Clutches as they have been doing quite well and they have reinforments in areas where needed.

 

[itwonder]

We have a few clutch options: SHO Source

They are all rebuilds but we recommend the South Bend Clutches as they have been doing quite well and they have reinforments in areas where needed.

There are nothing but positive comments on the Southbend clutches out on the SHOSOURCE site. Next clutch (heaven forbid), I'm going with a Southbend DXD Rally clutch kit from SHOSOURCE instead of another Valeo based kit.

A few people have posted positive comments about Luk clutch kits, but I wonder if they rebuild their own pressure plates or just repackage Valeo like most other brands do.

One other thing, where do all of the SHO pressure plate cores come from? There is no core charge on a clutch kit so I wonder where the supply comes from?

 

[93rev2sev]

You raise a very good point, ITWONDER. Id love to know, myself.

Most likely:
There is an over-abundance of clutch cover cores already in the aftermarket.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

One other thing, where do all of the SHO pressure plate cores come from? There is no core charge on a clutch kit so I wonder where the supply comes from?

No clue, no one has issued a core charge to us for them.

 

[AREA 91]

No clue, no one has issued a core charge to us for them.

I was thinking about this as well. I hate to just throw the big stack of used pressure plates away. There may come a day that there will be a core charge on them.

 

[93rev2sev]

I emailed LUK yesterday...lemme check that....

Edit:
got an auto-response:

Thank you for your interest. Your inquiry will be processed.

 

[S.H.O. UR SLF]

do you know which clutch kit sho source 1992 mtx looking for a good kit this is the last one i do to dam costly repair

 

[LOUDSHO92]

The South Bend Rally Clutch is a good clutch for DD.

 

[SHOpar]

I would HIGHLY recomend the SHO NUT clutch kit with the ceramic TOB. The ceramic TOB prevents premature ware on the pressure plate fingers.

I also HIGHLY recomend the teflon coated TOB fork bushings. I will not install a SHO clutch without them.

I also recomend that the quill sleeve be replaced. Make sure to use green loctite/sleeve retainer.

Thanks AREA 91! I'm pretty sure I want to go the SHO NUT clutch kit route, but I emailed them Sunday to ask if they also sell the quill sleeves and haven't gotten a response back yet. How long does it typically take them to respond to emails?

Even though the car is still drivable, I'd like to get the new clutch installed ASAP, as it's a real PITA to have to hit Reverse before I can get it into 1st at every stop light until the car is warmed up. I'm sure it also scares the crap out of whoever is behind me.

Thanks again!