99 SHO, 27K miles...what is it worth?

[78Buford]

Hello all.

Yesterday I found a 1999 Taurus SHO with 27K miles on it at a local dealership. The car literally looks new…I drove it, ran fine, not quite as quick as I expected…I’ve had a few Lincoln Mark VIII’s, and this was definitely not in the same class of acceleration.

Anyway, they are asking $9800 or so for it. The dealer could provide a 36 month/36K mile “high tech” warranty for $1400, or a 48 month/48K mile warranty on the porwertrain only for the same price.

I looked at an aftermarket warranty company that could provide a 60 month/100K mile warranty with $0 deductible for $1299.

I had no idea about the cam failures in these cars. I have a couple quick questions to see if I should pursue this car, or write it off as “too many future headaches.”

1. Is the price reasonable, or way over what the car is realistically worth.
2. If so, what is a fair price?
3. I’ll be putting around 25K miles a year on this car.

4. I looked at the EPA fuel economy ratings…they seem awful low. What is a real world mileage estimate for 60% highway driving (cruise control set at 70 mph) and 40% city driving?

5. 5. Does the car require premium fuel? I didn’t notice a premium fuel recommended notation on the fuel gauge…the Lincoln’s I had clearly stated that premium was recommended.

Any input is appreciated.

Roy

 

[stephen newberg]

Hi. I will try to address your questions:

Yesterday I found a 1999 Taurus SHO with 27K miles on it at a local dealership. The car literally looks new…I drove it, ran fine, not quite as quick as I expected…I’ve had a few Lincoln Mark VIII’s, and this was definitely not in the same class of acceleration.

Hmm. Stock Mark VIIIs tend to run about 15. Stock Gen IIIs average perhaps 2-3 tenths higher. I would not think you would notice it a lot, but it could also be a seat of the pants thing of the 'feel' of it. Or perhaps it is that the Gen III goes about it all with less fuss?

Anyway, they are asking $9800 or so for it. The dealer could provide a 36 month/36K mile “high tech” warranty for $1400, or a 48 month/48K mile warranty on the porwertrain only for the same price.

I looked at an aftermarket warranty company that could provide a 60 month/100K mile warranty with $0 deductible for $1299.

If your after market warranty reads well in the fine print, at that price I would go for as long as you can go. Unless you are into doing your own work, these are not the simplest of cars to work on, and labour charges for such common things as changing alternators as the bearings die or replacing suspension components due to wear, assuming your warranty covers this kind of thing, can really add up, not even counting the cost of the parts.

I had no idea about the cam failures in these cars. I have a couple quick questions to see if I should pursue this car, or write it off as “too many future headaches.”

For a high performance sedan, the Gen III SHO is actually pretty trouble free. The cam thing needs looking at, and eventually you are going to need to do transmission rebuilds, but all automatics need that eventually, and it is worth remembering that manuals go through clutches and pressure plates. Moving parts just wear out, though some tend to forget that when looking at the repair bill.

1. Is the price reasonable, or way over what the car is realistically worth.
2. If so, what is a fair price?
3. I’ll be putting around 25K miles a year on this car.

At that low use, assuming nothing is obviously wrong, the price is not horrid, but it is likely at the high end of the scale. Value on these cars has declined due to the cam problem, and with that in mind, you should also figure you are looking at an $800 preventive fix ASAP and add that into the cost. The fix via welding is actually pretty easily done, and you can find out a lot about it by checking over at V8SHO.com, including where to go to get it done. And the car will have no problems at all with that kind of yearly use, so long as you fix the cams. They normally do not have problems prior to 50K, but just in case, you should definately do them as soon as you can.

4. I looked at the EPA fuel economy ratings…they seem awful low. What is a real world mileage estimate for 60% highway driving (cruise control set at 70 mph) and 40% city driving?

I think most people, if they go to the trouble to accurately measure their fuel consumption, tend to get about 17-18 mpg around town and about 22-24 mpg on the highway. On long, constant speed highway trips, I have gotten as high as 28 mpg. Mixed like you are talking about, which is about what I tend to also, gets me in the 19-20 mpg range as a rule.

5. Does the car require premium fuel? I didn’t notice a premium fuel recommended notation on the fuel gauge…the Lincoln’s I had clearly stated that premium was recommended.

No, it does not. The gauge says it, but the computer on the car just adjusts for the fuel and no one has convincingly been able to even show any performance alteration by using regular instead of premium. In fact, I read a pretty interesting argument for regular being better on V8SHO.com some time ago, dealing with heat production.

Keep us informed, and if you do get the Gen III, I am sure you will enjoy it. Mine is getting toward 8 years and 160K now (and still on my original transmission, though I am just starting to hear the converter, so a trip to the overhaulers is not forever in the future), and it is a really great machine, which I hope to keep going for at least twice its current numbers, simply because it is so much fun to drive.

pax, smn

 

[Mr. SHO]

That price seems high, but for the miles and condition, it's hard to say what "fair" is. The price guides all assume it's just another boring family sedan, so they don't take into account that an enthusiast might pay a premium for an exceptionally clean, low miles car. Still, I think $8000 would be about as high as I would go. It's certainly not going to fly off the lot priced at nearly $10K.

These cars are not trouble-free, but they are not hopeless lemons either (other than the cam issue). Any SHO will require attention when it gets on in years and miles. A trans will be needed somewhere along the line. Most people make it beyond 80K with no problems, but it's a FWD car, so the trans is pretty much a wear item. Ask anyone around here and they'll say the maintenance is worth it--we love our SHOs.

The SHO 3.4L is weaker on torque than the 4.6L, especially down low (under 3K rpms) where Ford essentially de-tuned performance to keep soccer-mom from damaging baby's delicate neck muscles. As you mentioned, it's a "different class" of acceleration. One of my favorite things to do in the SHO is the high-speed merge. Cruising along at 40mph until I see a hole in traffic, then dropping the hammer and shooting up to 75 in a hurry.

If you are addicted to going WOT all the time and do lots of city driving, your mileage will be in the low to mid teens. I'm the WORST at this as my commute is stop and go, and I don't like being passed. I usually get 12-14 mpg unless I get out on the highway, where it goes way up. Mixed driving will usually get you upper teens to low twenties. Pure highway miles with conservative use of the loud pedal will get you in the upper twenties easily. When I go on road trips, I almost always hit 27-29mpg with a full load, cruising 70-80mph, using A/C as I see fit.

Premium fuel is somewhat of a touchy subject. I use it, because on my car, performance suffers in hot weather and/or stop and go traffic if I use lower octane fuel. But some people report that their car runs just as well on 87 as it does on 94. In the winter, I usually go with midgrade w/o any performance degradation.

 

[spragers]

Just repeating what's already been said; the price is a tad high, but that is pretty low milewage for a 7 year old car. I paid $11,500 for my '98 back in 2002 with about twice the miles. You must factor in the $700-$800 for a cam weld (the weld itself is about $500 but you'll spend several hundred more on plugs, wires, etc. while it's in the shop), and make sure the dealer is aware of this. All the info and evidence you need can be found at www.v8sho.com . You may also want to look into an X-cal or X-cal2 reprogramming from Doug Lewis (just search the forum for "xcal"), it will turn that SHO into a whole 'nother beast

Welding your cams will NOT void you aftermarket warranty, apart from them no longer covering the cams. You might say "but what if my cams fail under warranty?" Well, you'd be screwed anyways, because they wouldn't cover the cost (now around $13,000 for a non-existent replacement engine).

I personally use premium, but it's not neccessary. I really don't see the difference a nickel a gallon might make when I'm already paying > $2.50 per

Lastly, this will never be a high mileage vehicle in terms of fuel; figure on averaging around 20, maybe a bit higher if you can keep a light foot

 

[78Buford]

Thanks for the input guys….I’ll likely pass on the car. Here is the one I was talking about:

http://www.dutros.com/pages/present....asp?orgid=2209&vin=1FAFP54N9XA239209&photo=1

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=0

 

[JSIL1]

I had a warrentech/Mastertech warranty. IT ROCKED aside from the fact I expired the 4yr/100K total mile warranty in 2.5yr and 72K miles. damn expensive repairs. Other than that it covered EVERYTHING and a $0 deductible. I couldn't of asked for more

 

[stephen newberg]

Thanks for the input guys….I’ll likely pass on the car. Here is the one I was talking about:

I would not give up yet, and try offering $8K or $8.5K for it. The milage is -really- low, that it is worth the extra money to have a couple of less years of travel on the vehicle. IMO, anyway.

pax, smn

 

[JoeBoo]

NADA Guides. Pretty good site, in my opinion better than Kelley Blue Book....

http://www.nadaguides.com/uv/viewresults.aspx?LI=1-11-1-2031-0-0-0&Lnk=1&wSec=11&wPr=1&wPg=2032