94 SHO/ATX idler/pully newbie

[95ss]

Hi, I am going to look at a 94 SHO/ATX and the lady said the engine is making a noise but otherwise runs well. I questioned her about a possibilty the noise could be a engine knock and she said a diesel engine mechanic friend assured her it was a belt pulley noise, idler arm possibly.... so if i read some of your post correctly there are 2 pulleys that fail? could you guys give me a lesson on what to look for?
part cost? ( I do my own work )
Thanks:wave:

 

[sperold]

Check the parts availability and cost at RockAuto.com.

Take a long bar or something to act as a doctor's stethoscope to try and pinpoint the noise, either deep in the engine or at the front of the engine.

 

[95ss]

Thanks...anyone got a picture. Or link?

 

[rubydist]

some of the idlers are only available use, I believe.

there are 3 idler pulleys on the outside front of the engine on the serpentine belt, any of which possibly could be bad.

there are 2 more idlers under the front cover on the timing belt, either of which could be bad.

if you have mechanical experience, you should be able to easily discern if it is a bad idler bearing compared to if it is a rod knock.

expect to have to spend $350 in parts to get the necessary seals/belts/water pump replaced so that it doesn't leak all over. replace rod bearings as well.

 

[95ss]

Rod bearings as in pull the oil pan and rod end caps?

** there are 3 idler pulleys on the outside front of the engine on the serpentine belt, any of which possibly could be bad.**

anyone got the part numbers or description of these 3 pulleys?

****there are 2 more idlers under the front cover on the timing belt, either of which could be bad.****

are these the timing belt pulleys for the overhead cams?

I see this for 347.00

http://www.shosource.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=61_43_49&products_id=527

so I get the replacement of the pulleys and belts but you blew me away when you said rod bearings......can i do that with the engine in the car and up on ramps?
Thanks for the help..........do you know off hand if the manual for the engine is available for free download......or a decent parts list?

Thanks for the help.....this is going to be a challenge to find the parts if no one makes them anymore ie orielly napa autozone etc.....

 

[itwonder]

Unless you hear a rod knock or see the oil pressure light flicker at idle, think of the rod bearing replacement as a preventative maintenance measure that you can perform when it is convenient. It's not particularly difficult, and it is done from below with the engine in the car. There are write-ups on here. I replaced mine at 150K miles despite no indications of a problem, and they probably could have gone another 50K at least. It varies from car to car.

For used parts, you can post what you need on the forum to see who might have them, or you can check around your area for an ATX in a JY.

There is a lot of service information, including the SHO Engine Book, you can get from my dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/l/EeLRPOedZ8ULdnVBrTUGOo

 

[sperold]

One thing at a time.

You have not told us how many miles are on this animal, if a service history is included, and what the general condition is.
And the noise may not be a bearing at all (either rod, timing belt, or accessory belt).

The SHO is not an easy car to service due to space limitations on all sides, and you sometimes have to take off a lot of parts to get at what you want to do. But a manual (Helms) takes care of that... mostly.

 

[95ss]

I am going to look at the car tommorow, it appears that it is family owned and driven normally.....she said 140 ish on the mileage. I hope it is not a bearing and will not buy it if it is.....the crazy prices for the various pulleys and idler arms...etc are my main worry at this time. I have no information that says the rod bearings may be bad. just suprised that it is something that is regarded as preventive or normal.
Thanks for the help and keep the advice coming. A Good Forum is a blessing and you guys have one here.

 

[sperold]

The motors are virtually bullet-proof. They are capable of ultra high rpm.
A lot of these cars see 7000 rpm every day, and the rod bearings are the first things to show wear in that situation.

For all the cars not in the situation above, the rod bearings last a very long time. All my SHOs are high mileage and I have never replaced the rod bearing yet..... although I did buy a set, just for peace of mind.

If the rod bearings are bad, the oil light will flicker at an idle, after the car has come to full operating temperature, following a highway drive. Until that happens, leave them alone. Just because they are easy to change does not mean they should be changed.

When you are checking out this car, pay more attention to the automatic transmission and how it is working, than the engine.
Make sure it goes into OD and check to see how firm each shift occurs. The 94 - 95 models are better than the 93 model automatics, so you are on the right track there.

 

[95ss]

I am hoping the pulleys are what is making the noise....i have a good mechanics stethoscope and wonder if anyone else has used it to determine which pulleys are bad?
I wonder how? _____regarding transmission issues.....I have a rebuilt ax4s ( and a nice 3.8) in a stock Taurus manf date of 10-93. will that bolt up to this 3.2? I dont get the feeling this car has seen much hot rod time, but you never know. I will pay attention to the shift pattern and pressure i can feel....any giveaways on the shifts?

 

[LOUDSHO92]

If one of the idler pulleys are bad you will need one of the following:

Here: SHO Source

Also here: SHO Source

 

[95ss]

Thanks for the link.
Rick

 

[TimboSHO]

The ax4s has a different bell housing when it is mated to the 3.8. I believe there are a few internal differences to the trans, as well as a different torque converter. So not quite a drop in solution.

 

[95ss]

outstanding info...thank you.
Rick

 

[95ss]

How about dropping the whole 3.8 with ax4s into it? (this is a good plan in my view cause i am looking at this car for my 15 yr old!)
Rick

 

[rubydist]

to swap in the 3.8 w/ atx, you need the entire front wiring harness, the dash harness and the pcm along with all the mechanical parts. it is do-able, but not for the faint of heart. and a lot more work / expense than fixing a couple of bad pulleys on the SHO.

 

[Devin]

That 3.8l engine? Talk about the opposite of bulletproof!

 

[95ss]

yea....that may be a really bad idea, it is only a consideration because i have one in the garage. .

So I did buy the car...long story short, 1000 asking price, drove it to get gas for the test drive and it would not start after I shut it off.
Test/evaluation of problem
1. initial start up was slow and draggy....i thought it had bad connections or battery low
2. car did start and i let it run for 20 mins to see if it was going to overheat. it didnt
3. stop and fill tank
4. engage starter.....slow and then really slow with the last part of that doing the classic 'click click click' of not enough batter current/power available
5. Jump start only provides a solid thunk 1 time per rotation of the key, lights are strong and I brought the car home and put another battery into it with the same results. I am going to pull the starter and inspect it now......any one got the right part number for another one?

the car is 1994 3.2 auto trans. 1FALP54P3RA****** VIN

 

[Devin]

Someone around here should, but even part counter monkeys can get you a starter.

 

[95ss]

Thanks everyone.....

Well I figured the Starter was bad after i found a loose nut on the power line. tightend it up anyway and gave it a shot....smoke shot out of the starter! R&R and the problem was solved. Started it up and it idles good enough but SUPRISE.....it has a noise that sounds like a belt rubbing when you let off the gas. I figure it is going to need a timing belt and tensioner. yippe...could one of u guys point me to a link with some pictures if you get a chance. Thanks. Let the fun begin!
Rick