Need to redo my suspension, please help me clear up some confusion

[Dr. Tweak]

Alright, the suspension on the Phoenix Project is just crappy. I'm pretty sure that all the strut mounts are gone, and the struts, and the rear springs are nearly letting the car drag on it's butt.

I'm on a budget so, after doing a seach and whatnot, I think what I want to do is:

Moog Cargo Coils, about $100 (where?) Part number CC858 (Per NotSoSlowSHO's page)
Now, you can cut one coil off to get down to stock ride hight. How do you cut it? With a hacksaw? Where exactly do you cut it? Suggestions?

Stock replacement Struts, $200, suggestions? Sensatracs?

All strut mounts need to be replaced, about $100? Or $100 front and back, so $200 total?

Front strut bearings, about $100? Suggestions?

What are strut rod bushings?

Maybe endlinks as well...?

What special tools will be needed to do all of this? I know a spring compressor for sure, what else?

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

hmm... lots of questions...


So... lots of answers

Moog Cargo Coils, about $100 (where?)

RockAuto or NAPA. NAPA is your best bet, as you wont be ***** for shipping.

Front Coils: How do you cut it? With a hacksaw? Where exactly do you cut it? Suggestions?

I used a steel cut-off blade on my skill-saw
Hacksaw will work, but it will take a LONG time, and you must use a high-quality carbide blade. Spring steel is very tough.
I cut exactly one coil off of the fronts, just use the existing end as a guide. Fronts: Cut it off of the TOP of the coil.
Rears: off of the bottom.

Stock replacement Struts, $200, suggestions? Sensatracs?

My sensatracs are holding up very well. I managed to get mine from Rock Auto during a promotional "buy 3 get one free" deal.

Front strut bearings, about $100? Suggestions?

Bearings and mounts: MOOG as well. Very nice quality, and quite affordable.

What are strut rod bushings?

TPR bushing thru-out if you can

TOOLS:

Coil spring compressors. Dont bother renting them. Youll regret it.
I got mine coil spring compressors from SEARS for $45

Breaker bar. I use a 3 fot long 3/4" peice of galvanized pipe. Slips over my 1/2 ratchet just right.

I cannot think of any other specialty tools needed
Pretty straight forward job.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

I never rent tools, I buy them all

Your page was very helpful by the way.

Would an angle grinder with a cutting wheel do well cutting the springs?

What are strut rod bushings and where are they? Do I need to replace them? How much?

I'm still doing searches so I might come up with the answers.

*edit* Okay this is handy, for the rear:

Moog Cargo Coil CC859 1 (come as a pair)
Monroe Sensatrak strut 71781 2
Monroe dust boot kit 63621 2
Monroe Pinch bolt kit AK50 2
Moog Strut mount K8636 2
Ford RUBBER SPRING/STRUT INSULATOR REAR F1DZ-5K617-A 2

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Yeah, no reason to rent a tool for $30 when you can buy for under $50

Glad the page helped. Link to it from Phoenix Project if you get a page together, if you want

Angle grinder would work fine. Just try not to get the mtel too hot. It needs to be quick and "painless"

It is best to replace the strut rod bushing when you are in there, because you have to pull the strut from the knuckle to do them. They are the bushings that are located on the front of the subframe, left and right. The large rod that connects the knuckle to the subframe is called a "strut rod"

I failed to replace mine when I did my suspension. Now Im hating myself for it. Passenger side one is making racket

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Oh okay, I know what you're talking about now.

So far I'm settled on:

Moog Cargo Coils, from Napa, will cut one coil from the front. $110
Monroe Sensatrac, from Napa. About $60 each

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Sounds good

Any more questions?

Im going to eat dinner MMMM.... fresh-caught BBQ'd Salmon

 

[Dr. Tweak]

hey look 1,500 post for you

Can I do just the back for now and the front later? Are there stut rods in the back too?

 

[DHMag]

the $100 price tag for the springs is for all 4....just in case you only want to do the rears.

interesting note: my car - 1 1/2 coil cut on front, 1 coil cut from rear bottom. friends car with same springs, 1 1/2 coil on front, 1 coil from rear top. with that little difference, my car sits 2" lower in front than his, and his sits 2" lower in rear than mine. and our stance is identical.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

the $100 price tag for the springs is for all 4....just in case you only want to do the rears.

interesting note: my car - 1 1/2 coil cut on front, 1 coil cut from rear bottom. friends car with same springs, 1 1/2 coil on front, 1 coil from rear top. with that little difference, my car sits 2" lower in front than his, and his sits 2" lower in rear than mine. and our stance is identical.

So you would cut off the bottom of the rears, right?

I'm not going to cut the rear ones, I'm just cutting 1 coil off the top of the front ones to get to stock height.

 

[DHMag]

So you would cut off the bottom of the rears, right?

I'm not going to cut the rear ones, I'm just cutting 1 coil off the top of the front ones to get to stock height.

cutting from the bottom removes dead coils. the coils on top are progressive coils.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

cutting from the bottom removes dead coils. the coils on top are progressive coils.

Okay, I just want stock height. So I'm going to cut one coil off the bottom of the front springs, and leave the rears alone, right?

And what are strut spacers and do I need them?

 

[SHOtimer]

I did the CC on my SHO about 4-5k ago. I didn't bother cutting the rear springs and I like the way it sits. The wheel well is about 1in from the top of the tire in the rear. The fronts I didn't cut either and I regret it. I would recommend cutting one coil off the front CC's. Yes, the rears have a strut rod that connects the bottom of the knuckle to the body. I would also buy new endlinks and SB bushings for the front and rear. I replaced all mine with TPR and love it.

Endlinks:
Get the Windstar endlinks from Josh or FPN : F78Z-5K483-AA
The HD TPR kit for the rear: (MOOG K3124)

TPR bushings: MOOG
front tension strut to subframe:K8516
rear tension strut to strut body bushing: K8675
rear tension strut to knuckle bushing: K8649

Dending on the condition of your ball joints you might want to replace those also.

Swaybar bushings also depend on age and the size of your bar of course.

I just went through my entire suspension so this is still really fresh in my head..

Doug

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Okay, help me out here:

Suspension:

***Front***

Springs
Midwest SHO, Moogs, 139.99 for all four
Rockauto, Moog CC858, 41.89 pair
Napa, Moog CC858, 56.49 pair

Struts
Rockauto, Monroe Sensatrac 71780, 51.79 (2 required, buy 3 get one free)
Midwest SHO, KYB OE, 279.00 for all four
Autozone, Gabriel Ultra, 39.99 ea (2 required) Anyone ever use Gabriel Ultras? Any thoughts?
NAPA, Monroe Sensatrac 71780, 61.99 ea. (2 required)

Dust boot Kit Is this required up front as well as back, and are the part numbers different?
Autozone, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 16.99 ea (2 required)
Rockauto, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 11.70 ea (2 required)
NAPA, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 11.90 (2 required)
Pinch bolt kit
Rockauto, Monroe Pinch bolt kit AK52, 3.77 (2 required)

Strut bearing
Midwest SHO, 29.99 (2 required?) Mikey?
SHOnut, 56.22, both? Josh?
Rockauto, Moog K8630, includes mount, 37.79 (2 required) Is that correct that the mount and bearing come together? I don't think that's right...

Strut Mounts
Midwest SHO, Police, 49.99 (2 required)
Rockauto, Moog K8630, includes bearing, 37.79 (2 required)ditto
NAPA, Moog K8630, 35.99, says does not include bearing?

Strut rod to subframe bushing
Rockauto, Moog K8516 TPR, 20.79
NAPA, Moog K8516 TPR, 8.99 under the name "Master Ride", same part number as moog...

Swaybar Endlinks
Midwest SHO, Alum(Motorcraft) or Steel(Moog), 79.99 for both or 2 required?
Rockauto, Moog K8702, 26.89, (2 required)
NAPA, Moog K8702, 37.99, (2 required)
Autozone, Duralast SL239, 24.99 (2 required)


***Rear***

Springs
Midwest SHO, Moog CC858 and CC859, 139.99 for all four
Rockauto, Moog CC859, 52.79 pair
NAPA, Moog CC859, 71.49 pair

Struts
Rockauto, Monroe Sensatrak 71781, 51.79 (2 required, buy 3 get one free)
Midwest SHO, KYB OE, 279.00 for all four
Autozone, Gabriel Ultra, 44.99 ea (2 required)
NAPA, Monroe Sensatrak 71781, 61.99 (2 required)

Dust boot Kit
Autozone, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 16.99 ea (2 required)
Rockauto, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 11.70 ea (2 required)
NAPA, Monroe dust boot kit 63621, 11.90 (2 required)

Pinch bolt kit
Rockauto, Monroe Pinch bolt kit AK50, 2.18 (2 required)

Strut Mounts
Rockauto, Moog K8636, 40.79 (2 required)
Midwest SHO, Police, 49.99 (2 required)
NAPA, Moog K8636, 39.99 (2 required)

Strut Rod to strut body bushing
Autozone, Duralast, 9.99 (2 required?)
Rockauto, Moog K8675, 25.79
NAPA, Moog K8675, 17.99

Strut Rod to Knuckle Bushing
Rockauto, Moog K8649, 7.29
NAPA, Moog K8649, 9.69

Swaybar Endlinks
Midwest SHO, Poly, 29.99
Rockauto, Moog K3124, 13.59, (2 required)
NADA, Moog K3124, 17.49, listed as "Master Ride" with the same part number (2 required)

Any other input? Does this look correct? Is there anything else that I need?

 

[DHMag]

Okay, I just want stock height. So I'm going to cut one coil off the bottom of the front springs, and leave the rears alone, right?

And what are strut spacers and do I need them?

no, you asked about the rears, i answered in reference to the rears. for the front springs, cut the coil from the top. for the rear, cut the coil from the bottom.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

no, you asked about the rears, i answered in reference to the rears. for the front springs, cut the coil from the top. for the rear, cut the coil from the bottom.

Well, I said:

So you would cut off the bottom of the rears, right?

I'm not going to cut the rear ones, I'm just cutting 1 coil off the top of the front ones to get to stock height.

Then you said:

cutting from the bottom removes dead coils. the coils on top are progressive coils.

Thus my confusion. So the correct course of action would be to cut one coil off the top of the front spring, correct?

 

[DHMag]

Josh, i thought you were selling it ?

anywho. i would not recommend the KYB struts at all for any application. theyll go away within 10K miles. you show the same part number for front and rear springs. i have CC858 and CC839 on mine. the stock springs have different configurations for the front and rear. strut mounts and strut bearings only if inspection proves them to be bad. you can reuse the old boots. replace the pinch bolts only if you desire. on the suspension bushings, either Moog or Energy Suspension will suffice. the front endlinks at Auto Zone are SL239 and $20 each. the rear endlinks, i recommend Ford pieces. i paid $45 total for 2 endlink kits and they came with TPR bushings. from previous experience, i dont trust an endlink thats fabricated from a long 5/16" bolt and thin sheetmetal sleeve. i did not use the TPR bushings with my new endlinks, i purchased endlink bushings by Energy Suspension from A-Z for $10.

 

[DHMag]

Well, I said:



Then you said:



Thus my confusion. So the correct course of action would be to cut one coil off the top of the front spring, correct?

iz all good and you are correct. FFR: if you want to lower a vehicle but dont want to give up performance, remove the dead coils from the spring. dead coils give ride height, progressive coils give performance handling.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Josh, i thought you were selling it ?

anywho. i would not recommend the KYB struts at all for any application. theyll go away within 10K miles. you show the same part number for front and rear springs. i have CC858 and CC839 on mine. the stock springs have different configurations for the front and rear. strut mounts and strut bearings only if inspection proves them to be bad. you can reuse the old boots. replace the pinch bolts only if you desire. on the suspension bushings, either Moog or Energy Suspension will suffice. the front endlinks at Auto Zone are SL239 and $20 each. the rear endlinks, i recommend Ford pieces. i paid $45 total for 2 endlink kits and they came with TPR bushings. from previous experience, i dont trust an endlink thats fabricated from a long 5/16" bolt and thin sheetmetal sleeve. i did not use the TPR bushings with my new endlinks, i purchased endlink bushings by Energy Suspension from A-Z for $10.

Thanks, I added the AZ number. You are correct with the spring part numbers, I do have it listed that way. (Midwest SHO sells both together)

It is for sale, but one of the reasons why no one is buying it is because it needs a new suspension, so I'm going to take care of it. I'm also driving at this time and it needs to be done. And I don't really care if it sells, in fact after this I may just not sell it at all.

 

[DHMag]

for struts, i highly recommend the Tokicos with the Control Coil springs. Kenny is running Sensatrac struts though. for OE replacement, i recommend NAPAs struts. i dont recall their brand, but i installed them on another friends car and they are much better than the KYBs.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

for struts, i highly recommend the Tokicos with the Control Coil springs. Kenny is running Sensatrac struts though. for OE replacement, i recommend NAPAs struts. i dont recall their brand, but i installed them on another friends car and they are much better than the KYBs.

I'm going to get the Monroe Sensatracs, I've heard nothing but good about them for stock applications.