Bypass Sony Subwoofer Amp on 2016

[tech10002]

I'm looking to get a little more bass out of my 16, so I want to replace the factory 6x9s with low profile free air 8” subs and amp it off an audiocontrol lc2i tapping off the rear channels on the Sony amp. What I’m not sure of is if I need to add loading resistors to the unused subwoofer channels. I’ve seen quite a few sub install threads but haven’t seen this question answered. Anybody have an idea?

I would like to just replace the factory amp eventually, but I’ve read mixed reviews on the DSR1 module and don’t want to ruin Sync functionality.

 

[Lostneye]

For just a sub tap into the rear door speaker leads. I have not tested myself but the sub channels are said to clip earlier and the rear doors should be full range so you can set your crossovers as you like.

I hated the DSR1 and couldn't wait to get rid of it. I am using the PAC Ampro and am happy with it. You should also be able to use Forscan to reprogram the ACM to bypass the Sony amp, you then need to tap into the SYNC3 audio out and add RCA connectors to the factory harness to go directly to your DSP/amps.

 

[tech10002]

That’s gonna be phase 2 once I save up enough coin. I’m wanting to go pretty high end with the speakers, so it’s gonna cost a chunk of change. I’ll have to do some reading on the Forscan mod. I’ve heard of it before in other cars where you can convert the fixed pre out from the acm to variable out. Where do you get the audio from the apim, though? How are you using the ampro in a Ford? I thought that was for Chrysler products.

I have an old Audiocontrol Dql-8 DSP/summing LOC lying around too. Could use that with an RTA to remove all the processing on the Sony amp and just leave it alone. That way Sync, warning chimes, etc would work normally. For now, I just want to retain the Sony amp for the other speakers and install some better subs and an amp. I already replaced the 4 speakers with pretty decent Infinity models. I’m gonna tap the rear speaker outputs off the Sony amp to feed an lc2i to feed a sub amp now, and I ordered some dummy loads so the sub section of the Sony amp doesn’t just float.

 

[Lostneye]

I may change to the Forscan route but didn't originally as I did not know about it. I went post Sony amp into high level inputs on my Helix DSP, then DSR1, and now the PAC. The PAC without a doubt sounds the best. You need to splice to get SYNC sounds from the APIM and I believe you can get audio from either the dash or the harness at the Sony amp. I'm hoping I can use the DSR1 harness to splice into but haven't looked into it yet.

There is a Ford version of the Amppro part AP4‑FD21. It goes in the dash and has up to 6 channels out, Front L/R, rear L/R and sub or you can get an optical out(this is what I am using into my DSP). If you plan on going this route you can use it just for the sub now and add later as the Sony amp will still work. It also comes with a bass **** but I am using the one that came with my sub amp.

 

[tech10002]

That looks like a nice piece. The application guide says it’s only compatible with up to 2015 Taurus, and the guide lists other 2016-2017 Fords. It’s kinda strange since it shows other sync3 equipped Fords with the exact same Sony system are compatible but not the Taurus.

It’s a shame they can’t get their act together on the dsr1. It would be an awesome solution if it actually worked properly. I guess I’m gonna try my dql8 post Sony amp and see what happens.

 

[Lostneye]

I can't see it being an issue with 2016 and newer. I believe the Sony amp is different at some point but the APIM(SYNC) where the PAC harness plugs into and ACM(stereo module) are still wired the same. I installed the PAC with the factory SYNC2 APIM and swapped twice to different SYNC3 APIMS, non nav then to nav equipped without any issues.

Since you already have the dql8 no harm to see if it does the job for you. I don't think you will get the Sony curve totally flat but hopefully close enough you'll be happy.

 

[tech10002]

Does your pac unit introduce noise into the system? I’ve read some reviews of people complaining of hissing type noises. I was thinking of picking one up and trying it but a bunch of white noise would drive me nuts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lostneye]

More than the stock system yes. The DSR1 had crazy amounts of noise and alternator whine. The PAC much less but depending on your setup may be noticeable. My installer thinks it is a poor ground in the factory wiring that is most likely the issue which I may try and upgrade at some point if I am in the dash again. I added the toslink optical out(my DSP has an optical in) myself and that eliminated the noise for me.

I will say the PAC sounds better than the other 2 options I have tried, using the DSP as a LOC after the Sony amp, then DSR1. BUT, it is hard to get the car to image perfectly and I have heard from someone that it can be an issue with the PAC with Fords. Despite that I came in first place in my class in the two competitions I have entered with it. Last one the second place car had 10 times the money in front speakers that I have. I doubt the average person would complain.

Unless someone is trying out the Forscan route I would still recommend the PAC over other options.

 

[tech10002]

I did some reading in the F150 and Focus ST forums, and the Forscan hack has issues of its own. It seems nothing is perfect. I talked to the tech people at crutchfield and they said there’s brand new software for the dsr1 so I’m gonna give it a try. I know I’m probably a ***** with the reviews of it, but I’m not gonna permanently install it. Just gonna lay everything in the trunk and temporarily hook it up and try all the functions. If that doesn’t work, they said I could send it back and try the pac module. I’m not looking for a competition level system. I just want something that doesn’t sound like crap. I wasn’t planning on doing anything but subs right now, but all this talking about it gave me the bug. Lol

 

[Lostneye]

I have heard there were some improvement s with the DSR1 but it’s not 100% yet and considering RF never fully fixed the issues with the 360.3 I doubt it ever will be. But again it may work out fine for your situation. Post up how it works out for you.

 

[tech10002]

I’m not expecting it to work, but they’re talking it up like everything is fixed. We’ll see. Lol. The one I’m getting is brand new stock since they were back ordered at crutchfield, so I’ll get the most recent hardware version. Will report back after the test hookup.

 

[Lostneye]

I’m not expecting it to work, but they’re talking it up like everything is fixed. We’ll see. Lol. The one I’m getting is brand new stock since they were back ordered at crutchfield, so I’ll get the most recent hardware version. Will report back after the test hookup.

There is no hardware change AFAIK, however be sure to check it has the most recent firmware from both RF and idatalink(yes they each have their own revisions and have to be updated separately) there have been several since it was released.

 

[tech10002]

I updated both firmwares. What a pain in the ****. I got 100 errors on windows 10 and it would detect the module 1 out of 10 times maybe. I finally had to drag out my 10 year old windows 7 machine to get it to work. I tried to do a bench setup with it powered by usb before trying in the car, and Bluetooth will connect but as soon as I go to the home screen in the app, it drops the connection. It never will write anything to it. It might need 12v from the car before it will connect reliably. I’ll try it later. Their documentation absolutely sucks. It doesn’t say anything on the website. As horrible as their web interface is, I’m not having warm feelings about this working.

Assuming this doesn’t work, I guess I’ll order the pac module with the optical option and send that to a dsp. Are you using your Helix with the pac? I was thinking maybe Audiocontrol dm608 just because I’m familiar with Audiocontrol.

****, maybe I’ll get lucky and the dsr1 will work in the car, and then again maybe I’ll win the lotto this weekend. Lol

 

[Lostneye]

I updated both firmwares. What a pain in the ****. I got 100 errors on windows 10 and it would detect the module 1 out of 10 times maybe. I finally had to drag out my 10 year old windows 7 machine to get it to work. I tried to do a bench setup with it powered by usb before trying in the car, and Bluetooth will connect but as soon as I go to the home screen in the app, it drops the connection. It never will write anything to it. It might need 12v from the car before it will connect reliably. I’ll try it later. Their documentation absolutely sucks. It doesn’t say anything on the website. As horrible as their web interface is, I’m not having warm feelings about this working.

Assuming this doesn’t work, I guess I’ll order the pac module with the optical option and send that to a dsp. Are you using your Helix with the pac? I was thinking maybe Audiocontrol dm608 just because I’m familiar with Audiocontrol.

****, maybe I’ll get lucky and the dsr1 will work in the car, and then again maybe I’ll win the lotto this weekend. Lol

I updated both which was a pain and setup for integration with the laptop. IIRC it will not allow you to setup the DSP settings like crossovers without being hooked up in the vehicle.

Yes, I have been using the Helix since my first setup which was high level after the Sony amp, then the DSR1 using RCAs, then the PAC with RCAs and finally optical. I am not familiar with the Audio Control DSPs but as long as it has an optical in you shouldn't have an issue. It's only L/R signal but most DSPs would allow you to use that and set the outputs as you need them. The Sony amp still works if that matters to you which if you are doing just a sub first. The only factory speakers I still have in the car are the rear doors and typically have it faded all the way forward but they will play fine if I adjust the fader.

 

[tech10002]

I figured that out today. When I hooked the dsr1 to the car, it connected and allowed me to adjust everything. The whole plan to do it cheap for now is out the window, though. I spent most of today installing subs, so still haven’t had a chance to get my amp hooked up to test audio off the dsr1, but I’ve jumped off the deep end now so whatever I have to do to get this working I will. I just ordered some JL C5-570 components for the front doors and pillar tweets and will be using my Infinity Kappa 86cfx I installed earlier for rear fill. I’ve rigged up some Pioneer shallow mount 8s under the rear deck in infinite baffle configuration. This car isn’t exactly easy to get subs in without taking space in the trunk. I’m not sure if I’ll be satisfied by the amount of bass those provide, but I’ll add more subs later if need be. I have an Alpine PDX5(75x4 +300x1 RMS nominal)I salvaged from our old car that my wife totaled, so it should sound pretty decent if the dsr1 actually works.

I’m the event I have to go with the pac module, I think I may go with the JL Twk88 dsp. It’s relatively inexpensive and very small.

You got any pics of your setup? I’d love to steal some more ideas off yours. Lol

 

[Lostneye]

Looks like a decent set up although I think your are right with those subs not being enough. Nothing necessarily wrong with them but like a lot of shallow subs they don't have ton of output. IB sounds awesome and doesn't take much power but the larger subs the better for it. Be carful you don't overpower them even on 300w RMS. I am running 2 12s IB with a wall close to the back seat and I know another member is running a pair of 15s in a similar setup. You lose being able to put the seats down, well you can fold them down but obviously cant pass anything through but it takes up the least amount of space in the trunk after use the rear deck like you are doing. I recommend sound deadening the rear deck with dynamat or the like and close cell foam to panels from vibrating against each other.

The Twk88 is a decent DSP, you shouldn't need anything more. It doesn't have an optical input but the new Dayton DSP seems to have good reviews so far and is only $150. I am convinced my car is more noisy than most so the optical may not be necessary.

I will have to get some pics together. There was a build log on another site with the first install but most of it have changed since then anyway. I originally was using an Alpine PDX-V9 and had it mounted on the drivers side trunk bulkhead behind the carpet so it was hidden if you are looking for an out of the way spot. Amps are now in a rack taking up about have the spare tire well since I have a PP and no spare anyway.

Current setup is:
PAC Amppro via optical - Helix DSP - Zapco ST-6X SQ and ST-1650XM II amps
Seas Prestige tweeters in customer sail panels
Audiofrog GB60 mids in factory front door location
Image Dynamics IDQ12s IB with a wall right behind rear seats

 

[tech10002]

Sounds like an awesome setup. I’ve never used Audiofrog before but I bet they’re spectacular judging from the price. You usually get what you pay for. I would love 12s but I travel a lot in this car and carry a lot of equipment with me. I really don’t want to compromise the trunk that much. I was thinking maybe I could fit something on the right side of the trunk behind the beauty panel. I haven’t taken the panel off yet to see how much space there is though.

I know the shallow mounts are a compromise, but I wanted to be able to put the felt panel back on, and there’s just barely enough room with the shallows. I already dynamatted the **** out of the rear deck, and I plan on being judicious with the gain on the sub channels. Plus, these subs are rated for free air so the suspension is really stiff.

 

[Lostneye]

Audiofrog was started by a few ex Harman(parent of JBL & Infinity) guys one being a former product manager who was responsible for some of their best stuff getting to market. Not cheap but I have been very impressed with everything that I have heard of theirs.

The fuel filler is on the right, the left side has more room. I have a set a jumper cables on the right side and not much room left for anything else. The left side has the factory Sony amp but that is removed with the DSR1 as I'm sure you found out. The IB wall takes up some room as mine is a few inches back from the rear seat backs but it's really just the speaker baskets/magnets that take up the room. Hopefully I can get some pics soon and you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[tech10002]

Cool. I had heard of them but didn’t know the back story. They look awesome. Some day I’ll give them a try.

Been working on the car for a while. Finally got the subs installed and the interior back in so I can drive the car again. I snapped a few pics. I know it’s not the most beautiful thing in the world. I thought about painting the wood but it’s gonna be covered up by the rear deck and the beauty panel in the trunk so I got lazy. I dynamatted everything I could get to and sealed every hole I could find to help keep the back wave from getting in the car and killing the bass. Just for grins I hooked the factory amp back up, and I can’t believe the difference those subs made. They have 5 times the output of the stockers and the bass is much deeper. You can actually hear it, and I have the voice coils hooked up in series, so it’s 4 ohms a speaker—almost twice the impedance of the stock subs. You’d think they would have less output, but I guess the stockers just suck that much.

Now the fun part comes this weekend. I get to start hooking up amps and my Jl separates. How much damping did you have to put in the doors to **** the resonance? The car seems insulated pretty well so I hope I don’t have to go too crazy with the dynamat in the front doors.

Anyway, it’s 2am, and I need get at least some sleep. Lol

 

[Lostneye]

Looks good. There are holes in the bulkhead you might want to hit up. IB doesn't have to be perfectly sealed to work great though.

I have probably 100 sq/ft of dampener in the whole car but pretty much all just the front doors and trunk shelf/bulkhead area. I also have closed sell foam and MLV(mass loaded vinyl) in the doors. CLD(constrained layer damper) like dynamat is designed to mainly stop vibration, closed cell foam is to separate panels that vibrate against each other, and MLV is to block sound(in the case of the door it cuts road noise and the back wave of the mid). Even with that I have to get into my drivers door again as there is something resonating, not always noticeable while driving but obviously while parked. And since you seem competent enough I recommend you build your own plywood baffles for the mids in the door instead of using the thin plastic factory bracket.