Power Steering - high pressure hose leak

[98SF19]

About to start reassembling intake (with secondary plates, shafts, springs, etc. FINALLY removed) and had noticed a slow leak on the HP steel hose coming out of top of PS pump. I'd wiped it down a few times and even with car off, the leak would return. It's been there long enough that there is plenty of red fluid along top of motor along heads. I can clean that stuff up before reassembling, but considering doing Nimz's upgrade here:

http://v8sho.com/SHO/Power Steering Line.htm

I can swing by Harbor Freight on the way home today, but question:
What was the main reason that Paul did this? As for my leak, could I most likely just get away with adding some Teflon to the threads? I'd seen on some vids that there is an unserviceable o ring that eventually goes bad where you have to replace the whole hose assembly. Maybe this was his reason . . .

 

[E1]

Exactly right. Unserviceable O ring at the fitting at the top of the pump. The more one fools with it, the worse it gets.

You are better off replacing the whole hose. Of course, the correct V8 SHO hose is long since un-obtainium.

I have used a regular Taurus hose for the Duratec cars with success.

I wanna say that I picked up that tip here somewhere in a post by Chris Archer many moons ago.

 

[98SF19]

Thanks Eric.

a regular Taurus hose for the Duratec cars

This one?
https://www.stockwiseauto.com/gates...8&Make=Ford&Model=Taurus&gsID=pxf868376f9199&

Says it's 64 lbs. Seriously? If that's right, the shipping will be hefty and I imagine it's no fun getting that hard line wiggled back in the right postion. Might go with Nimzified PS line and keep the hose option on the back burner (in case I botch the fitting tap or over-tighten the compression fitting).

I'm also considering cleaning up the leaked PS fluid and pump itself - just not sure if I wanna drain coolant, remove reservoirs, deal with serp belt, etc. The time needed to do these things this time of year is hard to come by, but I'm sure if I don't I'll wish I had!

 

[gamefanatic]

I can't validate the use of the Duratec line, but you can definitely replace the 16MM teflon washers. I've had to do this on several of my older Tauri in the past.

1. The trick is to soak the ring in Mercon V a bit before installing as this will help to soften it up and make it somewhat stretchable.
2. Find a socket that is smaller than the inner diameter of the ring on one end and almost size of the threads on the other. Slowly push the ring on to stretch it. The main goal is to not twist or put a crease in the ring during the process.
3. Once you have it stretched you will need to quickly and smoothly transition the ring from the socket to the threads on the PS hardline connector. The trick here is to get the ring between the threads and not on the treads.
4. Use a finger nail to slowly advance it up between the treads all the way up. This keeps the ring from stretching too much. When pushing it up the treads be sure not to make it jump the tread as this could stretch it too much or put a gash in it destroying it.
5. Once the ring is above the treads give it a few minutes to shrink back to size before putting the hose back on the pump. You will want to watch the ring to ensure it doesn't bind up on the pump as you are twisting it back in. If it does you may want to get a small flat end screw driver to coax it into the hole. So long as you didn't put a crease or damage the washer you can tighten it down.

Now what I can't tell you is the proper torque should be. I simply tightened the nut to the PS pump enough to where I felt comfortable, then I turned the car on to check for any leaks, and tightened more as necessary.

I did go through two or three rings to figure all this out, but I figured I would from past experience. That's why I got a kit of them.

Edelmann 70005 POWER STEERING 16MM Ford Teflon Rings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQOPHE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_RV8nAbPEK4HG5

 

[zak]

Don't let it linger. We had a Camaro catch fire at a Northeast SHO club autocross one time after a high pressure power steering leak sprayed one of the exhaust manifolds, while on course. Of course we had fire extinguishers available which reduced the damage considerably, IIRC.

 

[gamefanatic]

I forgot to mention, that even with the new line you will need to take care with not damaging the seal. As I mentioned above it can be damaged when putting the line and tightening it down as it is somewhat of a "perfect" fit. You will likely need to coax it into place as you tighten it down. I'd recommend using the Mercon V on the new seal to make it more flexible, but thats just my preference.

 

[98SF19]

Edelmann 70005 POWER STEERING 16MM Ford Teflon Rings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQOPHE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_RV8nAbPEK4HG5

Looks like they're out! But there's another: https://www.plews-edelmann.com/service-parts-power-steering/16mm-teflon-seals/
as well as others; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...ke/ford/model/taurus/submodel/sho?prefilter=1

even with the new line you will need to take care with not damaging the seal

You're talking about if I do the Nimz mod? Looks like he just used RTV in lieu of o ring. I was hoping to hear from somebody who'd done this. It's alluring in that, assuming compression fitting holds, any future issues at the pump would only involve removal of the tapped original fitting with the 3/8" barbed end.

Don't let it linger

10-4! I was able to get the hard line and large supply hose separated from pump tonight; just need to dump the serp and turn the wrench a bit. Luckily I still have a clear hose jerry rigged to my shop vac, which will be used to initially remove the pools of red oil either side of the valley. What's the name of the box where the PCV lower hose attaches, in between knock sensors?

 

[zak]

One other thought - if you bring the hose to a hydraulic shop, e.g. Parker Hannifin or similar, they can take your old hose and put in a new flex section.

 

[gamefanatic]

I don't see any issues with the RTV alternative.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

(I know it's not the main subject. But just in case, talking about P/S.)

98SF19, did you put finally a filter on the P/S line ? I remember that we talked about that some years ago (putting the SLO one). I didn't put one on mine because I'm wondering if it can change something on the fluid pressure.

Fluid choice maybe can do something too on leaks. I first put AT fluid which was ok but the road feeling wasn't so great (less sensitive because it have more viscosity) and replaced it by true P/S fluid (Kleen flo IIRC) with which the road feeling was a lot better. That let me thing that some P/S fluids have less viscosity and can make leaks easier, no ? (Maybe, with the pressure on this system, a higher one, a leak is just a leak, fluid change will not do anything.)

 

[98SF19]

they can take your old hose and put in a new flex section

No doubt for less $$ than the hoses would go for, if they were around anymore. Duratec hose mentioned earlier might be comparable price wise to a shop, but this is apart from my issue at hand, though I guess it pertains to the Camaro you mentioned whose line sprayed on rear manifold.

did you put finally a filter on the P/S line

Did we discuss that? Musta been a while back. I think I used another Nimz post on the size to pick one up . . . it's been sitting in my garage for a while. That's an easy install, just haven't done it. I can't remember if there was a screen in it. I don't think so, I think it was just a magnetic ring, and it would probably take quite a bit of 'junk" to affect flow, especially if not checked every 10k or so.

I'm looking forward to time off next week and hoping I can get this dirty girl back on the road!

 

[SHOZ123]

Simple repair with simple parts.

 

[98SF19]

Simple repair with simple parts

You're half right.
Thanks for the extra info Paul, always appreciated.
The v8sho post led me to believe the fitting on end of hard line at PS pump was what got drilled and tapped, which didn't seem right size-wise. Your additional pics indicate you went with a hydr. hose without the 3/8" male ends, hence a 3/8" barb on each end with a clamp. I can see me doing this in the future, but upon removing pump and getting some pics, it looks like the teflon seal WAS the culprit (and has been for quite a while!).


Staying within bounds of thread topic, I noticed that the shaft seal on pump (once wiped down) appeared held in with a retainer. Here's a before and after:



Does the first pic indicate a leak here? It seems unlikely that the high pressure line leak would cause this. However, I do have the privilege of cleaning up the valley of death created by hp line leak, and may replace the hose that Nuke had an issue with recently:

 

[SHOZ123]

For what ever reason mine would not leak unless there was some pull on the line. If I wiggled the fitting it leaked so I just got rid of it.

Here's the pump all taken apart. Pretty simple and much like any other PS pump.

 

[Qshiplvr]

So, have been following this thread for a while now, and while I don't have a PS pump leak, I have noticed that when I start up my car in the AM on the way to work (cold in Palm Springs, but not freezing like many of you out there...50s F) I hear my PS pump groan loudly as I turn the wheel to back out and drive off. It eventually quiets down as the car warms to normal operating temp, but I am concerned that it is failing, as it never made this noise before. The PS pump is the original on my '99, and have approximately 74K miles on it now.

Would you guys recommend waiting until catastrophic failure on the PS pump or being proactive and replace with a reman'ed one?

 

[98SF19]

Steven Covey's momma di'n't raise no dummy . . . Be Proactive. Not always easy for me, especially with family life, and around Christmas - New Years . . .
Your symptoms may be normal for cold mornings (I live in a warm climate so wouldn't know). Fluid levels are good? Is it frothy after running for a bit? I vaguely remember a post where the low pressure side was not sealed well and would draw air in during startup. Unless there was a leak in supply hose, this condition would require low fluid level I believe. For starters, you can lift front end, start car, let it warm up, and slowly turn lock to lock a few times.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

On some SLO, the P/S pump can be very noisy and not only on cold temp. My first 98 SLO had a noisy pump which had never broke strangely (during 3 years of service but many others before me). The pumps on SHO seems made by Ford too (similar in appearance). Not sure that the noise is a clue of a falling one.

However, if the pump is dealing with ATF fluid, it have to works a little bit harder. Mine on SHO, seems to stop working for 1 second when the liquid have more than 2 years... (P/S fluid not ATF)

Is there some shops that are able to rebuild these P/S pumps. (in replacing clamps, o-rings, sealant, bearings, etc ?)

If we have air in the system at start up, I suppose we can see many bubbles into the pump once the cap is retreived ?

 

[98SF19]

Is there some shops that are able to rebuild these P/S pumps

I should be getting the PS shaft seal and seal kit I bought off RA any day now (they were out of the Edelmann rebuild kit). I don't have the right spanner tool to free up the retaining ring holding in bearing - needle nose pliers almost worked but I came close to stabbing and/or cutting myself in the process so I think I will defer to the pros for replacing of seals and o-rings. Trial-and-error learning for something like this is not wise IMO.

 

[98SF19]

So my time management skills could use some work - I didn't get as much done over holidays as I'd hoped. Looks like I'll be braving the PS pump rings and seals replacement job myself. My mechanic said he's never messed with these before and that they typically just replace the whole thing. But he was kind enough to loan me some lock ring pliers and after removing it tonight, it doesn't seem to have helped much. The shaft and bearings are still in there tightly and it's hard to tell how or if they come loose.

EDIT: Found a good vid here on removing shaft:

From 2:40 to 3:40 in video is just what I was missing. These Subaru PS pumps are very similar to the Gen3's.

 

[99sho-time]

I replaced mine brand new autozone advanced sells them. Heatsshield little bracket for the bolt and all