Sludge in the Intercooler!! Could this really cause lurching and other seemingly transmission woes?

[rcryniak]

So, I had a significant issue yesterday driving home.

My SHO started lurching, revving and changing gears on it's own. At one point it was nearly max RPM in 3rd gear, no reason whatsoever... this all took place over 20-30 seconds. Honestly, it was downright scary, just totally acting bizarre. After I was clear of traffic, I nailed the throttle (braking didn't help) trying to give it some other driver input... and everything reset, back to normal... cruising in 6th gear like nothing happened. 10 minutes later, also going 70ish (speed limit), the transmission slipped into 5th gear on it's own (felt like engine braking with higher RPMs.) Blipping the throttle "fixed it", let it shift back to 6th gear, RPMs returned to normal around 2,000 or so. I wonder if this is related to the rev hang issue I recently had??

Anyhow, in digging around here and generally in Google, it seems that oil in the intercooler can cause such behavior?? I took the day off and figured I'd get that item off my checklist and clean out the CAC and see if that resolved the issue. When I pulled the tubing and such, used the dipstick in the intercooler, it came out with a thick oily sludge instead of translucent oil.

So, the pic below only shows how deep it is, and that it's definitely opaque - but trust me, that's some chunky stuff. It's so thick, I couldn't suck it out with a tube, viscosity was far too high for that. Topsider failed, shop air pump failed, it was just too thick to get into the tube. When I used my shop air pump, it took a chunk of the thick stuff which plugged the tube. I blew it out from the other end and it shot across the room. Disgusting.

So, could these really be related? It could be a transmission issue maybe, but my searches said the intercooler issue could cause that behavior too, and the Ford dealership tech agreed, said it could definitely be the cause of those symptoms, and the first thing to check before getting into transmission stuff. (I just had transmission service done by them a month or so ago, too.)

What now??? Thoughts? Anyone? I'm scared to rely on my SHO as it is now... that was ...not a good situation.

 

[SHOdded]

Please recap the current maintenance status, if you don't mind, including plugs & fluids (including when & what brand/type), so we have a starting basis.

Definitely should not have been this thick, how long as it been since the last evacuation? Have you pulled the spark plugs to assess status? Any oil pooling in the intake tubing? Any smell of gas, particularly from the exhaust? Failed injector(s) are not uncommon on these Gen 4.1 SHOs.

Trans problems can be engine problems in reality, you are right. The PCM is continuously adjusting to make the best situation of its' inputs at any given time. If it is fed data that does not make sense, that will surely cause the symptoms you describe.

 

[rcryniak]

Plugs replaced with colder plugs at 0.030 at around 28k miles. Currently at 46k miles. Had coolant and transmission fluid changed within the past 3 months (all Motorcraft/OEM from dealership), did oil change (Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30) about 3 weeks ago - religiously at 5k or sooner if the car yells at me - even if the dealership forgot to reset, I still listen to the computer if it tells me it's time. Oil's cheaper than a new engine. Mods list in sig. 3BAR and 160* Tstat were done 3 months ago.

As far as I know, the CAC's NEVER been evacuated!! I've never done it, and I bought the car at 24k, so even if the guy knew to do it, he probably wouldn't have done so with so low a mileage. I didn't pull the spark plugs, but I'm not getting any misfire feeling, nor any codes, power is stable and awesome (except for this acting up bit recently, but when it's not acting up it's golden) - if you think it will help, I can pull the plugs to look if I can find a picture guide. (Never did that myself.) There was NO oil pooling in the intake tubing. In fact, where the hose detached from the engine to get to the intercooler, there was a metal "flap" in the hole (not sure the right term for the part) and it, as well as the walls of the cavity it sat in, looked clean as a whistle. No smell of gas... though I have once in a blue moon smelled something chemical or burning maybe going down the highway, but it's only there for a minute and then gone - not uncommon for highway traffic (other cars likely I always figured).

I am wondering if air going through the CAC is getting turbulent via the sludge, throwing the readings off for the computer - that's my theory, if indeed the intercooler sludging is causing my symptoms. Not sure how else that could be true.

And for those of you who don't know me - fwiw me--><--noob.

 

[SilverSH0]

Plugs replaced with colder plugs at 0.030 at around 28k miles. Currently at 46k miles. Had coolant and transmission fluid changed within the past 3 months (all Motorcraft/OEM from dealership), did oil change (Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30) about 3 weeks ago - religiously at 5k or sooner if the car yells at me - even if the dealership forgot to reset, I still listen to the computer if it tells me it's time. Oil's cheaper than a new engine. Mods list in sig. 3BAR and 160* Tstat were done 3 months ago.

As far as I know, the CAC's NEVER been evacuated!! I've never done it, and I bought the car at 24k, so even if the guy knew to do it, he probably wouldn't have done so with so low a mileage. I didn't pull the spark plugs, but I'm not getting any misfire feeling, nor any codes, power is stable and awesome (except for this acting up bit recently, but when it's not acting up it's golden) - if you think it will help, I can pull the plugs to look if I can find a picture guide. (Never did that myself.) There was NO oil pooling in the intake tubing. In fact, where the hose detached from the engine to get to the intercooler, there was a metal "flap" in the hole (not sure the right term for the part) and it, as well as the walls of the cavity it sat in, looked clean as a whistle. No smell of gas... though I have once in a blue moon smelled something chemical or burning maybe going down the highway, but it's only there for a minute and then gone - not uncommon for highway traffic (other cars likely I always figured).

I am wondering if air going through the CAC is getting turbulent via the sludge, throwing the readings off for the computer - that's my theory, if indeed the intercooler sludging is causing my symptoms. Not sure how else that could be true.

And for those of you who don't know me - fwiw me--><--noob.

That hose you removed is connected to the throttle body. That "metal flap in the hole" is called the throttle plate and opening/closing that while the car is running is what increases/decreases your engine rpm. Your go pedal is "connected" to that plate and it causes it to open/close.

I got curious as my car has about 70k miles and I doubt the CAC has ever been cleaned. So I removed the tube and checked with the oil dipstick. It came out of the CAC looking just like yours (same color and same amount). I stuck in my little 12V fluid pump and pumped it all out pretty easily. Mine was about the consistence of thick gear oil. If you have chunks that are thick enough to plug up hoses I would get that cleaned out ASAP before it gets sucked into your engine and does serious damage (could potentially bend a valve if it's as thick as you make it sound).

 

[SHOdded]

Still chewing over engine possibilities.

In the meantime, there is this TSB
Broken Orifice Restrictor Plug 6F50/6F55 TRANSMISSION-DTC P0751-HARSH OR NO FORWARD ENGAGEMENTS-PERCEIVED SLIP ON ACCELERATION-SLIP/DELAYED AND/OR HARSH DOWNSHIFTS

There is a very slight possibility that the TSS/OSS sensors could be at fault. This was issued for the Edge/MKX 6F50 TRANSAXLES BUILT PRIOR TO 10/21/2007 - DTC P0715, P0717, P0718, P0720, P0721, P0722 AND/OR HARSH ENGAGEMENT, NO UPSHIFT, FIFTH GEAR ONLY

Had the torque converter been slipping, you would likely have felt the car shuddering, and rpm fluctuating without change in input from you.

There is also this TSB
PTU needs replacing AWD VEHICLES - SHUDDER/CHATTER/VIBRATION ON TURNS OR THUMP/CLUNK NOISE ON LIGHT ACCELERATION - BUILT 10/1/2009 TO 12/31/2009

 

[rcryniak]

I would get that cleaned out ASAP before it gets sucked into your engine and does serious damage (could potentially bend a valve if it's as thick as you make it sound).

Regardless of the engine/transmission behavior, I was concerned about that as well. Yeah, honestly, after putting the shop air pump on it, which pulled a tiny, tiny bit out - looking at it, it looked dry almost. I gently blew on the other end for it to go into a shop rag so I could take a closer look and it shot out of the tube across the garage with the "twhip" sound. Nice. Yeah, it's chunky. Very nervous about that.

No matter what, that thing needs cleaned, big time. So, taking that out to clean it (since the pump method failed) is a bit beyond my ability and time constraints... at the moment - so I found a performance savvy mechanic that quoted $300 to do the work. Almost half the dealer price. Still... expensive for a "this might fix it, maybe!"

Hopefully, by Friday night this will be resolved. If not, then at least the CAC will be clean and I can start looking at other possible causes.

 

[SilverSH0]

Regardless of the engine/transmission behavior, I was concerned about that as well. Yeah, honestly, after putting the shop air pump on it, which pulled a tiny, tiny bit out - looking at it, it looked dry almost. I gently blew on the other end for it to go into a shop rag so I could take a closer look and it shot out of the tube across the garage with the "twhip" sound. Nice. Yeah, it's chunky. Very nervous about that.

No matter what, that thing needs cleaned, big time. So, taking that out to clean it (since the pump method failed) is a bit beyond my ability and time constraints... at the moment - so I found a performance savvy mechanic that quoted $300 to do the work. Almost half the dealer price. Still... expensive for a "this might fix it, maybe!"

Hopefully, by Friday night this will be resolved. If not, then at least the CAC will be clean and I can start looking at other possible causes.

At a minimum I would call that cheap preventative maintenance for potentially avoiding a much more costly repair bill later.

 

[rcryniak]

Agreed - and thanks for the explanation of the throttle plate... now I wonder if a chunk actually got up in there and held that plate open or affected it's operation momentarily until I punched it, swinging that plate hard, dislodging anything? Maybe? Seems to me that a forced higher RPM above what the TPS sensor would indicate would force a downshift to maintain speed, right? (Just a thought.) It would explain the 6->5 maintaining 70mph bit... though is very scary, my poor engine. As if those poor valves don't have enough to contend with dealing with carbon buildup. :/

 

[rcryniak]

OMG... I just realized what that "metal flap" reminded me of... the 3 red dots of Challenger awesomeness... does this mean that these cars don't use filtered air?? Or do their throttle plates precede the air filtration? (See?? Told you I was a noob lol!)

 

[John Miller]

Problem with this theory -if the sludge was that thick, it was unlikely to have been sucked into the intake. So, how would it have affected performance?

As much question as statement ...


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[SHOdded]

Maybe you could pour some ATF into the intercooler (carb cleaner might work, not sure what it can withstand), then attach a long, flexible length of pipe cleaner (plastic brush) to a drill and kinda mix the whole thing up. Suck it out, repeat, ... until the intercooler seems clean.

Haven't really seen a way to clean the intercooler in situ. Most people take it out to do this, which of course results in a more thorough cleaning.

 

[rcryniak]

Problem with this theory -if the sludge was that thick, it was unlikely to have been sucked into the intake. So, how would it have affected performance?

As much question as statement ...


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My theory is turbulence... Change in airflow.... Orrrrrr.. maybe a small piece got loose on a WOT run. I did find some sludge at the top of the intercooler tube, but not in the flexible tubing. I cleaned it off.

 

[John Miller]

Fair enough. Hope you're right


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[rcryniak]

Haven't really seen a way to clean the intercooler in situ. Most people take it out to do this, which of course results in a more thorough cleaning.

Yeah, I don't have the time or the experience to take it out for a cleaning - but the guy I've hired on Friday (got an appointment) will do it for $300 - totally worth it all things considered. I even printed out the CAC cleaning procedure from the official Ford Service Manual - they call for something called "Simple Green Pro HD" or similar? Anyhow, I'm going to hand him my info and go to work (in my wife's car).

Fair enough. Hope you're right

Worse case, I get a thorough cleaning of the Intercooler that's desperately needed regardless, and still have a big problem to address. Best case, I have a thorough cleaning of the Intercooler and a total resolution to the problem I experienced. I can think of worse ways to spend money - like those stupid fake turbo add on whistles for the exhaust. I can't believe people actually pay good money for those haha.

 

[brucelinc]

I can't quite see how sludge in your intercooler had anything to do with the issues you experienced. By all means, however, it needs to be removed. I would be concerned that it was there in the first place. I checked mine at 60,000 miles and there was barely a hint of oil on the dipstick. I don't think sucking large amounts of oil from the intercooler is a routine maintenance item but rather a symptom of an issue.

 

[rcryniak]

I won't disagree that it demonstrates some issue - however, I think the issue is in the design, rather than a malfunction. I'm not 100% sure either way, but I've seen lots of posts around about the Ecoboost platform and excessive oil in the intercooler. There's a nice writeup on another forum about catch cans and such that could be related. Lots of other posts (mostly F150 related) where drilling a weep hole in the IC is done.

 

[Sgtmeatsauce1]

I am very interested in the catch can theory , I used on on my G8 and it caught a lot of crap. I think it a good idea if plans are to keep the car over the long haul, like I will be. I also saw a new CAC is about 200 bucks, cheaper I imagine if you shop around. Just saying

 

[rcryniak]

Fair point about replacement. How does your SHO compare to the G8? I've been curious for a couple weeks having watched one smoke a GT. I was impressed.

 

[Sgtmeatsauce1]

Completely different beast. I bought my G8 new, drove with minor stuff just learning until warranty over at 36000 miles, then did the forum recipe for mid 12's. Did the whole suspension with poly and GXP struts and shocks. Had a locking differential with sticky tires and awesome suspension. Street light to light was king in Mexico. All aluminum V8 with 2 7/8 Kooks headers into high flow cats into 3 inch X pipe straight out through Magnaflow SS mufflers. Killer tune, added YellaTerra 1.85 roller rockers, .600 PRC springs lightweight rods, ported and polished Maf, true Vararam Ramair intake. I will never forget that sound. I miss that car everyday. I did not want to trade it in. Wife hated it.
I raced several SHOs, even through first from a dig, then in 2nd I begin to pull away, I am gone by 3rd. If from a roll I have to catch and then pass a couple SHOs. My last pass at Atco before the rockers and port job, and Balduccis racing transmission, red Alto clutches,CircleD stall...I ran [email protected] I never went back to the track. Interesting is I get nearly the same gas milage, 17 city, 19.7 DD combined, but better highway 25(g8) 29-32 SHO speed dependent.

 

[rcryniak]

Sounds like it had more on the top, not surprising considering the displacement... the wife hating a car is rough. How does she like the SHO? My wife loves mine. Used to try to steal it all the time lol.