I'm currently negotiating on a 2013 non PP with about 35k on odometer. I'm looking for advice on what I should do to make it as powerful as possible, but reliably, for about 3500 in mods. From what I already (think) I understand, I could get exhaust, intake, tune, 3-bar, and meth to get some pretty good gains reliably (of course there are other small things to include like thermostats and what not). Main thing is, I don't want it to be an all-out rod, its my driver. But I'm cool with having to dump in meth and run premium fuel. Should I piece together my build? Or should I go somewhere like livernois and just have them put in an entire stage 2 or 3 kit? I know a lot of this is preference, but I'm looking for some guys with experience to give advice. Thanks in advance for any help.
Looking to have a "hot" daily.. advice wanted
- Thread starter mtmlegit
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Calgary
SHO Member
dyno tune for best gains. id just get it all at one place.
This is becoming more and more evident. Thank your for the input. Does anyone know somewhere in the USA southeast that is trusted for this kind of work? i'm okay with dedicating a weekend for a roadtrip to georgia, alabama, the carolinas, etc.
Your list sounds pretty good, mtm! Yeah if you can do complete intake/exhaust, that's the best way to go (CAI, downpipes, catback). Colder TStat esp if you live in HOT climates or track often. Tune + 3 bar MAP. Meth kit. Yup that's pretty much considered the way to go for most folks. Suspension upgrades like H&Rs also provide launch control (coilover status pending for 13+).
The "kit" is primarily to get a nice price, but ostensibly, also to get you parts that have been tested to work together. Don't know if it makes that much of a difference, but certainly can't hurt. Piecing it together yourself is also not a big deal. Hopefully you can do all the install work locally (yourself or a favored shop). That will save a boatload of money.
If you go with the established tuners, most of the time, a dyno tune is not required to maximize performance. But if you are of the mindset that a blueprinted engine is good to have, then a dyno tune is a must
The "kit" is primarily to get a nice price, but ostensibly, also to get you parts that have been tested to work together. Don't know if it makes that much of a difference, but certainly can't hurt. Piecing it together yourself is also not a big deal. Hopefully you can do all the install work locally (yourself or a favored shop). That will save a boatload of money.
If you go with the established tuners, most of the time, a dyno tune is not required to maximize performance. But if you are of the mindset that a blueprinted engine is good to have, then a dyno tune is a must
Your list sounds pretty good, mtm! Yeah if you can do complete intake/exhaust, that's the best way to go (CAI, downpipes, catback). Colder TStat esp if you live in HOT climates or track often. Tune + 3 bar MAP. Meth kit. Yup that's pretty much considered the way to go for most folks. Suspension upgrades like H&Rs also provide launch control (coilover status pending for 13+).
The "kit" is primarily to get a nice price, but ostensibly, also to get you parts that have been tested to work together. Don't know if it makes that much of a difference, but certainly can't hurt. Piecing it together yourself is also not a big deal. Hopefully you can do all the install work locally (yourself or a favored shop). That will save a boatload of money.
If you go with the established tuners, most of the time, a dyno tune is not required to maximize performance. But if you are of the mindset that a blueprinted engine is good to have, then a dyno tune is a must
Thanks SHOdded. I will keep reading and expanding my knowledge. The main thing is, I want to be able to tune my car and make it mean for certain days, but also be able to use a handheld to tune it back down to a "street" mod for longer hauls on the highway. I assume this makes sense? I could put on my exhaust and intake system myself, i'd just let someone else put on the meth so i don't have to jump off a building if it messes up. So to sum it up, is it possible to get my car to around 400 whp on meth and 93, but then use a nice handheld tuner to get it back down to "stockish" numbers for days i just don't need the power?
onespdfrk
wtf...
I think you're asking too much for a used car with unknown maintenance history. It's one thing to go at this with the knowledge your mods may cost you a new engine or trans down the line, but it's another to stress all of the components to the max and expect it to be just as reliable as stock. Once you get to the 400 AWHP mark and above, things are going to wear out faster.
Realistically, for a daily driver, the SHO's are fairly quick with just a tune, 3 bar MAP and stat. There's not much on the street that will beat one from a dig, and aside from a racetrack, not many opportunities to really tap into all the extra horsepower you're after. My advise would be to scale it back to $2k - $2.5k in mods, then spend the rest on maintenance (trans, ptu, etc...).
On who to get the go-fast goodies from, I only have experience with Livernois and will recommend them and their products without hesitation. Best of luck with whatever you do, and let us know what you end up with!
Realistically, for a daily driver, the SHO's are fairly quick with just a tune, 3 bar MAP and stat. There's not much on the street that will beat one from a dig, and aside from a racetrack, not many opportunities to really tap into all the extra horsepower you're after. My advise would be to scale it back to $2k - $2.5k in mods, then spend the rest on maintenance (trans, ptu, etc...).
On who to get the go-fast goodies from, I only have experience with Livernois and will recommend them and their products without hesitation. Best of luck with whatever you do, and let us know what you end up with!
Once you have the full mods on, unless sound levels of the new exhaust system bother you, I really doubt you will want to dial it back down. Most people don't, even in wintertime with snow & ice etc. These cars really do remain VERY driveable, that's one of the reasons to use the established tuner we do, Unleashed & LME.
Now, if you wanted to return to stock for dealer visits, or if you wanted to load a lower octane tune for times when winter gas isn't providing enough octane (so you could run 93 on a 91 tune for example), or you just can't get 93 gas where you are, I could see the need for the device. Definitely keep the device and your 2 bar MAP with you in the car in a safe place at all times, just in case of emergency. That's a solid idea.
Be sure to ask the tuner you pick about control over the W/M injection, because it should not be spraying when you load the stock (OEM) tune back in. You should also get in the habit of routinely checking the W/M reservoir levels, don't let it run dry. Be sure to find out where you can get a steady supply of methanol. Don't cheap out with windshield washer fluid or something. That would like trying to dose a marathon runner with sewer water.
bpd has put up an excellent guide to installing the Alky Controls system, so if you wanted to do that (with a friend if need be), you could!
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,524.0.html
Now, if you wanted to return to stock for dealer visits, or if you wanted to load a lower octane tune for times when winter gas isn't providing enough octane (so you could run 93 on a 91 tune for example), or you just can't get 93 gas where you are, I could see the need for the device. Definitely keep the device and your 2 bar MAP with you in the car in a safe place at all times, just in case of emergency. That's a solid idea.
Be sure to ask the tuner you pick about control over the W/M injection, because it should not be spraying when you load the stock (OEM) tune back in. You should also get in the habit of routinely checking the W/M reservoir levels, don't let it run dry. Be sure to find out where you can get a steady supply of methanol. Don't cheap out with windshield washer fluid or something. That would like trying to dose a marathon runner with sewer water.
bpd has put up an excellent guide to installing the Alky Controls system, so if you wanted to do that (with a friend if need be), you could!
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,524.0.html
This was one of my main concerns when I got a tune. Since I take my vehicle on longer road trips I couldn't ensure there would be 93 octane or quality gas everywhere I go. I also wasn't a huge fan of having to keep the 2 bar MAP in the car and be willing to change it in a gas station if needed. Instead I had the tuner loaded with a stock tune with the only change being a 3 bar MAP instead of the stock 2 bar. If for whatever reason there's no gas for my 93 tune, I can simply load the stock 3 bar tune and keep going. To me that beats working on a hot engine at a gas station. That's just my 2 cents.
Exactly. I know how hot that engine bay gets from driving and really had no desire to swap out a MAP sensor at a gas station even if it is only a couple bolts. If figured it wasn't worth it when the only real change that's needed is to change the sensor range. I don't know if I'll ever use it but for me it's a piece of mind that I don't have to carry around a sensor, wrench, and tuner just in case someone doesn't have 93 octane gas. I just store the tuner in the trunk all the time and going back to "stock" is as simple and easy as loading a tune.
I've said it before that I use my car as our trip car so it regularly goes new places with unknown gasses. I was thinking about getting a 91 octane tune instead of 93 because pretty much everywhere carries at least 91. As I was thinking about it and wanting that 93 octane, I thought about modifying the stock tune that I could pull off the car to accommodate the additional range of the 3 bar MAP sensor. Then I just asked the tuner if they could provide that instead of me fiddling with it and they were happy to provide it with my 93 tune.
Pintony
Active Member
This is interesting reading!!!
Ok so.. If I had to buy 87 octane? "With a tune" I could not just stay out of the boost and get by????
Ok so.. If I had to buy 87 octane? "With a tune" I could not just stay out of the boost and get by????
Only if you are running a tune meant for 87, meaning stock or a custom tune (i.e., higher performance tune). However, since custom tunes tend to reduce the safety net w regard to knock & detonation, you do need to be on top of things with regard to equipment and fuel. The turbos come on a lot more often than you might think, I recommend monitoring boost with programs like Torque Pro/Forscan etc. (smartphone/tablet software) to see how your driving style would fit. Don't make it a "lifestyle choice" to stay out of boost, but in an emergency situation, sure. But know where & when. When in doubt, ask your tuner.
BamSHO
SHO Member
You can ask for a 91 octane and 93 octane tunes. I take my tuner along on trips just in case I run into a place that doesn't have 93 octane. Also take the 2 bar map sensor and tool for "just in case". I gone of many trips with my old '12 tuned. Rather have it in and not need it and need it and not have it.
It's not bad advice, but I personally don't see the point. I just don't see a situation where I'm unable to tune my stock 3 bar tune but for some reason can tune the completely stock tune (with 2 bar MAP). I'm curious as to what situation you have in mind that would having the 2 bar sensor and tuner work where simply tuning to the 3 bar tune wouldn't work?
Additionally I figure if there's some completely weird situation where I might need the stock sensor because I cannot load the "stock" 3 bar tune and for some reason can load the stock tune, I'll find a way to get to the local auto parts store and buy a MAP.
Kind of what SHOdded mentioned here. It doesn't take much to run these cars into boost. Just cruising down the interstate it's in boost. So if I was on a trip I wouldn't want to run it on 87 octane with a 93 tune and cruise down the interstate.
With these engines I don't know exactly what's changed with the tunes. Livernois would have to chime in to answer that. But on older vehicles higher octane tunes use advanced timing. Run lower octane and it can lead to detonation. I know these engines have multiple knock sensors but I don't know how much they can retard timing to avoid detonation.
Silversho said:
Just cruising down the interstate it's in boost.
That is certainly NOT the case with my tuned 2010 MKS. I use the Aeroforce gauge and have it set up to turn on a red light when manifold vacuum reaches zero and boost is being employed. While a dip into the throttle will provide instant boost, I could cruise all day long at 80 MPH and unless we are talking about parts of I70 west of Denver, mine will never see boost. In fact, that is one of the things I like best. For normal daily driving and to get good mileage, I can easily stay out of the boost. Obviously, it is more fun to use it and I frequently do.
Just cruising down the interstate it's in boost.
That is certainly NOT the case with my tuned 2010 MKS. I use the Aeroforce gauge and have it set up to turn on a red light when manifold vacuum reaches zero and boost is being employed. While a dip into the throttle will provide instant boost, I could cruise all day long at 80 MPH and unless we are talking about parts of I70 west of Denver, mine will never see boost. In fact, that is one of the things I like best. For normal daily driving and to get good mileage, I can easily stay out of the boost. Obviously, it is more fun to use it and I frequently do.
Pintony
Active Member
Specs say 10 to 1 compression ratio for the 3.5 Ecoboost so I guess NO on the 87octane.
Say what? my 2010 manual says it can run on 87 octane (just makes less power). What does your manual say?
Compression ratio is only one of many factors that determined minimum octane rating.
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