Madyaks
Madyaks
I live in Missouri, would a 93 octane LMS tune and Downpipe with cats cause a car to fail?
If it does, would going back to the stock tune fix it
If it does, would going back to the stock tune fix it
Emissions question
- Thread starter Madyaks
- Start date
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not unless it is a really crappy tune. the tune should be set up to run closed loop during most driving conditions, and if so the engine should run at stoic and the cats should clean up whatever is getting to them.
are there any codes?
are there any codes?
Are you referring to OEM downpipes or LME downpipes, Madyaks? If LME, then ask them if the rear O2's are turned off in the tune. If so, the SHO won't achieve emissions readiness status. In which case, simply loading the stock tune and driving for a bit (as laid out in the owner's manual) should prep it for the test.
To determine if the
vehicle is ready for I/M testing, turn the ignition key to the on position
for 15 seconds without cranking the engine. If the service engine soon
indicator blinks eight times, it means that the vehicle is not ready for I/M
testing; if the service engine soon indicator stays on solid, it means that
the vehicle is ready for I/M testing.
The OBD-II system is designed to check the emission control system
during normal driving. A complete check may take several days. If the
vehicle is not ready for I/M testing, the following driving cycle consisting
of mixed city and highway driving may be performed:
15 minutes of steady driving on an expressway or highway followed by
20 minutes of stop-and-go driving with at least four 30-second idle periods.
Allow the vehicle to sit for at least eight hours without starting the engine.
Then, start the engine and complete the above driving cycle. The engine
must warm up to its normal operating temperature. Once the engine is
started, do not turn off the engine until the above driving cycle is
complete. If the vehicle is still not ready for I/M testing, the above driving
cycle will have to be repeated.
To determine if the
vehicle is ready for I/M testing, turn the ignition key to the on position
for 15 seconds without cranking the engine. If the service engine soon
indicator blinks eight times, it means that the vehicle is not ready for I/M
testing; if the service engine soon indicator stays on solid, it means that
the vehicle is ready for I/M testing.
The OBD-II system is designed to check the emission control system
during normal driving. A complete check may take several days. If the
vehicle is not ready for I/M testing, the following driving cycle consisting
of mixed city and highway driving may be performed:
15 minutes of steady driving on an expressway or highway followed by
20 minutes of stop-and-go driving with at least four 30-second idle periods.
Allow the vehicle to sit for at least eight hours without starting the engine.
Then, start the engine and complete the above driving cycle. The engine
must warm up to its normal operating temperature. Once the engine is
started, do not turn off the engine until the above driving cycle is
complete. If the vehicle is still not ready for I/M testing, the above driving
cycle will have to be repeated.
We do not emissions test any of our products. We are in a non-emissions state, and there are too many minor nuances in testing and regulations from state to state or even county to county for us to provide actual performance parts that are 50 state legal.
That is 110% misinformation. The tune can be perfect and still fail, because there are different emissions requirements and testing methods that may cause a vehicle to fail in one county and pass in another.
Texas is a great example. Texas is an emissions state. There are some counties that have emissions testing like Harris or Nueces county that have emissions, BUT there are neighboring counties that do NOT have any emissions testing or regulations.
For another example, there are some states that only test the OBDii port looking for DTC codes, but there are some states like New York and California that not only test the OBDii port but also test the tailpipe with a "sniffer" or tool that measures the levels of emissions that your car is emitting. This extra measure of testing measures what your car outputs VS what the mfgr advertises to the govt with a small "fudge factor" for more.
Madyaks
Madyaks
Thank you all.
My respect for you guys and your work just took a major hit. My statement is 100% accurate. The tune should be set up to run closed loop during "normal" driving, and during closed loop there is absolutely no reason a "perfect" tune would fail emissions - in fact by definition it cannot be "perfect" if it does not pass emissions.
Please be aware that I am an engineer by background, I have written a bunch of custom tunes for various vehicles (as well as a bunch of other software). Here in Colorado the vehicles have to pass a sniffer test, and I have never once had any problem with the tuned vehicle passing emissions. So, I am not just some random guy on the internet talking about stuff about which he knows nothing.
The vehicles from the factory are designed to emit only about 10% of the maximum pollutants, because statistics tells us that to get all of the range of results to pass and keep passing for the length of time the Feds require, that is what it takes. That means ~90% of the vehicles put out less than 25% of the limit, so you have plenty of room to be "not quite as clean as the factory" and still pass emissions. There is no reason for a properly written tune to set any DTC codes.
The emission testing, even the sniff tests, are designed to keep the pcm in closed loop control at all times. (This is why they require the engine at operating temperature and have gentle acceleration and deceleration during the testing.) The fact is that if the tune is correctly written, and the pcm is running in closed loop, then the engine should be running at stoich and the cats will clean up the exhaust to the point where the vehicle will pass emissions. Period, end of story.
I am sorry that you and sperold feel that my response was subpar, but it is 110% true. We have an entire engineering team that works with all of the major automakers. We engineer our own software, hardware, tooling, parts and products. We know for a fact that our tuning with the exhaust products that we make will not pass emissions. We know that the cell count of our specially designed race style catalyst and the catalyst location will cause any vehicle fitted with our downpipes whether it be with our race cats or without will fail emissions testing. Also if there is a readiness test that is done on a car that has these modifications done it will also fail. Are there a few outliers that exist, sure, but we do not advertise as such for the simple reason that more cars will fail than pass.
Madyaks
Madyaks
I appreciate any and all advice you guys from LMS come here and offer us, every time I have called you guys have gone out of your way to take time and explain things. (what you posted above is just what you guys told me on the phone when I called)
shoblock
SHO Member
I liked shodded's reply, but had a further question. Can you go back to the stock tune and keep the three bar map sensor, or do you have to switch it back to the original sensor with the stock tune? (For this example, exhaust is stock)
Any type of actual performance part or modification is going to be 50 state emissions non-compliant. Look at the insanely small and insanely common mods like a CAI for example. Even they are NOT emissions legal! It is a filter...we are talking about reconfiguring the internal software of the ECM AND replacing half of the exhaust system. If an air filter (that is not emissions legal) not pass which does relatively nothing for performance, why and more importantly HOW would a software recalibration and completely redesigned race-centric catalyst pass? As an actual performance engineering firm, the largest culprit of robbing performance is...emissions.
If you take an unbiased look at the entire performance industry, over the last 5 or so years the EPA has cracked down in a MAJOR way on all performance aspects of the auto industry. From the makers to the upfitters. The automakers have to meet crazy standards like a universal MPG avg. For example the new Z06 and GT350R could not exist if it were not for the Volt and Fiesta. The same goes for the foreign car makers as well! The Leaf and Prius make the GTR and LFA a reality.
Think about it...when was the last time that you saw ANY tuning company advertise emissions compliance?
BamSHO
SHO Member
A good example is the DEF, particulate filter delete. The EPA is cracking down on that big time. Good friend manages a 4X4 shop and got talking about tuners and other things. He told me they stop doing the deletes and required tuning cause of the crack down. And those guys "rolling coal" its only a matter of time before they crack down on them.
