camshaft position damage at seal.

[95ss]

Hi guys, started to tackle the camshaft position sensor leak, I have it apart and can see some big gouges and damage from prior R&R....If I determine that the surface (I assume it is the camshaft) is damaged what can I do.
Thanks
Rick

 

[Irish Pride]

The shaft coming out is the camshaft. If it's gouged up that will definitely cause the seal to leak. Your two options for a repair are #1 install a redi-sleeve and hope that it is enough to create a good enough seal or #2 replace the camshaft with an undamaged one. Option #2 is your better bet at a permanent repair but it is also the hardest one to complete.

 

[rubydist]

the 3rd option is to put a shim/spacer behind the seal so it moves outboard about 1/8" or so, which will cause the seal to ride on a new spot on the camshaft. personally, that is the one I would do first, since it does not require r/r camshaft, and I have not always had good luck with the redi-sleeve type things.

 

[95ss]

ok...great information again! I will bring this post up to date when i get the seal off and inspect the damage. Might be a day or 2 due to the below freezing temps in my garage and the foot of snow that just fell......or even the 9 inch forecast that is slowing me down. (I love busting my ass on my driveway) I hate snow....and I never knew about buying a house on a steep hillside....f in driveway kicks my butt.
Thanks..
Rick

 

[Off Road SHO]

Fix the scratches/gouges if they are not too deep. Pack a bunch of greased up string way back in the hollow to help keep grit out of the oil channel. Rotate a gouge to where you can see it and go to town with some quality wet/dry paper or cloth. Start with a coarse grit of 160 and work your way down to 1200-1500 grit. Rotate to the next scratch and repeat. Remove the string after you flush out the area with WD-40.

Tom

 

[95ss]

ok....that sounds like a great way to do it. Thanks.

 

[itwonder]

See whether the gouges are in the housing that holds the seal, or the camshaft that runs through the center of the seal. The camshaft is hardened steel and is less likely to get gouged up than the soft aluminum housing; but anything is possible.

 

[Off Road SHO]

See whether the gouges are in the housing that holds the seal, or the camshaft that runs through the center of the seal. The camshaft is hardened steel and is less likely to get gouged up than the soft aluminum housing; but anything is possible.

Good point, though if it's leaking around the part of the seal that doesn't have a moving part next to it, coat that surface with good rtv before installing.

If it's leaking because there is a groove worn in the camshaft itself, there is nothing short of the seal-saver idea above or replacing the cam.

Tom

 

[95ss]

Called the autoparts store and they do not understand what seal I am talking about. anyone know the part number? how about the correct name? the closest I think i came is a front camshaft seal ? 19.95 from ORielly. Thanks

 

[95ss]

Good point, though if it's leaking around the part of the seal that doesn't have a moving part next to it, coat that surface with good rtv before installing.

If it's leaking because there is a groove worn in the camshaft itself, there is nothing short of the seal-saver idea above or replacing the cam.

Tom

God help me from dealer mechanics....It is leaking because of 2 things he did wrong\1 is he damaged the surface of the camshaft with the screw he put into the seal to pull it out. He also jacked up the aluminum outer surface but as you said I will coat that with a little silicone and be done with it. HE DID NOTHING TO REPAIR the damage (on the cam) and tore up the seal when he put it back i think, 2. The real problem is he did not get the seal seated evenly....one side is WAY back compared to the other. Should be fun to get out. So I do not know if the seal saver is needed yet.

 

[95ss]

More Information for TIMKEN 1213N .......DID A SEARCH....FOUND IT. sorry for the caps. I cannot find anyone who has the ford seal. and i see where the fel pro is not very good. anyone have any recent experience with a specific brand?
Thanks

 

[SHOMON]

I think people prefer the national Brand seal over others.

 

[rubydist]

that seal is quite difficult to install - I have only found 2 ways that work consistently:
1. use the seal installer that is in the Rotunda kit for the SHO motor.
2. remove the rear valve cover and remove the cap to the end camshaft bearing, then install the seal, reinstall bearing cap and valve cover.

the reason that particular seal is so difficult to install is that the seal lip begins to engage the end of the cam shaft at the same time the outside of the seal is beginning to contact the housing. it is virtually impossible to get the seal in the housing without rolling the lip, unless you do one of the 2 things I described above.

 

[Off Road SHO]

If you don't have a seal installer like RubyDist mentioned, you can use a .005-.010 feeler gauge blade to walk the inner lip onto the camshaft. Polish (of course) the rough edges of the blade on an electric wire wheel first; they are quite sharp from the stamping process. Pre-**** the camshaft with a thin coating of grease and the outside of the seal with a thin layer of Ultra Black or The Right Stuff RTV sealant.

Tom

 

[95ss]

I can get the seals at the local autoparts store ....5 days from now and with extra charges for freight! BUT my NAPA store has there own brand and has the right size in stock.
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anyone have some luck with these?

 

[zoomlater]

I saw a couple of auctions on ebay for the cam seal installers only, not the whole kit. Search for Rotunda, SHO. A little pricy just for those tools, but they are nice to have when you need them

 

[itwonder]

I have had success tapping the seal in place using a 1-1/4" PVC coupling and a flat steel bar for a hammer. Of course, the Rotunda tool is preferred. It's important that the seal goes in square; it will try to go cockeyed as it goes in. Be patient. I stretch electrical tape around the end of the camshaft to protect the seal lips during installation. Put grease on the lips, and RTV around the outer perimeter. The National seals are the only ones I've heard consistent positive reports on, aside from the now-unobtanium Ford seals. NAPA does not make seals; you may be able to look at one of them with a magnifying glass and see the lettering to determine which manufacturer they are re-branding.

 

[itwonder]

 

[95ss]

yep....thats how i did it! Thanks for the help and pictures. Any chance you have a picture with the engine at TDC with the cam position sensor steel sensor wheel ..........i am unsure if it got it right. i may have it 180 out.

 

[JRA2000TL]

I have gone through this before and am going through this now. If your cam is scratched--replace it. I've tried a redi sleeve, and it did not work. Long story short, the 1st time I did all 3 of my seals in the 89, I did them from the side (except the far rear, which seemed impossible from the side as I attempted it). I wound up scratching the cams unknowingly and have had to go back in there. I already swapped the far rear cam and I have no leaks. I'm working on the middle one now as apparently it also got scratched. Take the 20 min. extra and pull the intake. You can also verify that the seals are seated correctly and aren't crooked. I learned the hard way on this deal, as I'm tired of tearing the motor down repeatedly. I am hoping this will fix it for good. Others may have successfully done it from the side, but it's a huge PITA.