More codes

[deven.coffey]

Well looks like I'm back after finally solving the bucking issue, had to have both the cam and crank position sensors replaced. Now the computer is spitting two more codes for me to deal with

176- i know this corresponds to one of the O2 sensors on the exhaust needing replaced so hopefully I can figure out which one it is...

219- this one is more confusing since it is saying the car is defaulting to -10 BTDC timing due to the spout circut being open, just checked the spout plug and everything looks to be in tip top shape, no corrosion and no burning...

Is it possible that the connector is bad and not the plug?

 

[frosho]

Do you have a multimeter? You can test the plug/connector pretty easily by checking for resistance.

 

[deven.coffey]

gonna go pick one up right now, will post results upon my return

 

[deven.coffey]

tested the SPOUT connector and it read -9.93 ohms resistance, I'm assuming this means the connection is good and the 219 code is stemming from something else?

 

[frosho]

That means you have a bad connection. You don't want any resistance.

How exactly did you test it? (where did you put the probes?)

 

[Bob Gervais]

IIRC, and the memory isn't too great these days, if you're testing the SPOUT jumper, it may have some resistance. I know that they are keyed and only install one way, I think there's a diode in there.

*edit*

Just checked the jumper from my truck, which is the same as the SHO jumper. .9 ohms .

 

[NoSlo]

The SPOUT check connector is just a shorting jumper, the connector when removed should test the same as touching two multimeter leads together (or <1 ohm.) You can't test the harness side of the connector directly.

The two wires of the SPOUT connector on a 94 MTX simply return the presence of the jumper back to the computer:
Pink: ECU pin 18 (also called "octane adjust" in some docs)
Gray/Red: ECU pin 46 (SIG RTN)

Other sensors that use the common pin 46 signal return:
ECT, Knock, TPS, BARO pressure, power steering pressure, IAT, clutch pedal position switch.

You can check the ECU is making a proper SIG RTN connection to the wiring harness by unplugging the throttle position sensor, turning the key on engine off, and check voltage between the outside two pins on the TPS harness, it should be 5 volts. You can then check that the SPOUT wiring harness is good by checking the resistance between Gray/Red wire at the SPOUT and Gray/Red at the TPS - they are the same signal so resistance should be < 1 ohm.

 

[deven.coffey]

That means you have a bad connection. You don't want any resistance.

How exactly did you test it? (where did you put the probes?)

i put the probes in the slots where the pins on the connector go, the color coding was all messed up so i had to test it both ways, one way gave me .1 and the other gave me -9.93 which i assumed was the right way

 

[frosho]

Ignoring the (-) sign, the values should be the same either way you test it. I wonder if your probe had a bad connection when you saw the -9.9 value.

 

[deven.coffey]

quite possibly, I'll have to do another test tomorrow and see. This last one was a little rushed (woman yelling at me). I'll be back tomorrow with those results

 

[jimtash]

Check the wiring at the DIS. Had the same timing issue and it was because a loose wire at the left side connector. Replaced it with a good one off another harness and no issues since. Carefully wiggle the wires and if there's a bad connection that begins to make contact, you should be able to tell when the computer is adjusting the timing by listening to the idle. It'll go up slightly and sound smoother.

 

[deven.coffey]

Just did a more thorough check of the SPOUT plug. With the key in the ignition and the electricity on, the plug was not giving any signal to my meter (set for 20 ohms scale) turned the car on, checked the plug again, and the car shut down before it gave the meter any signal, tried 2 more times with the same result. Never got a reading on the meter...

Honestly, WTH? I thought that completing the connection was supposed to happen? Not shut off ignition...

Also, checked the actual connector, read a resistance of .2/.1 so that means its good right?

 

[deven.coffey]

bump, still would like some help if anyone out there is familiar with this

 

[NoSlo]

Just did a more thorough check of the SPOUT plug. With the key in the ignition and the electricity on, the plug was not giving any signal to my meter (set for 20 ohms scale) turned the car on, checked the plug again, and the car shut down before it gave the meter any signal, tried 2 more times with the same result. Never got a reading on the meter...

The SPOUT check connector is just a shorting jumper, the connector when removed should test the same as touching two multimeter leads together (or <1 ohm.) You can't test the harness side of the connector directly.

Please see the above. You should have an idea what a multimeter is for and what you are checking before proceeding with any action. Connecting a multimeter in impedance mode (in which the multimeter produces voltage) to random wires that are direct inputs to your car's computer is a bad thing.

You reported that the jumper you removed measured at .1 ohms - that is equivalent to a short, the same as measuring a piece of wire, or even touching the two multimeter probes together. That indicates the removed jumper that you plug into the harness connector is fine.

My full post above (which seems to have been ignored) gives you a testing procedure using first the voltage (not impedance) setting on a multimeter to test the ECU signal return line at the TPS sensor, and then uses the impedance setting on the multimeter to check that same signal through the harness to one of the wires at the SPOUT connector. Testing the harness wiring from the other wire of the connector to the computer would require disconnecting the battery, removing the ECU computer connector, and testing the impedance from the other pin of SPOUT connector to the correct pin on the computer's harness connector.

You may have a SPOUT error code in memory from a previous disconnection of the connector that is leading you down the wrong path. Reset and see if
the code is still being generated by your car:

1. Plug the SPOUT connector back in.

2. Disconnect one terminal of the battery for five minutes (and turn on the headlight switch too) too clear all stored memory codes.

3. Reconnect the battery

4. Start the car and let it idle for a few minutes, then take it for a drive for a few minutes. Return and shut off the car.

5. Insert the self-test jumper (correctly), and then read the KOEOff codes to see if you again get a SPOUT error code or if you now have 111 for all good.

 

[rubydist]

Just a couple of details to add to above:

1. some of the SHOs that I have had require much more than 5 minutes for the pcm to completely reset - one of them consistently required over an hour with the battery disconnected, even with pressing brake pedal, turning on lights, etc.

2. after you reconnect the battery, you will need to do the idle reset procedure, which is turning on all accessories and letting it idle for a minimum of 5 minutes. after that 5 minutes, you must turn the engine off, do not just jump in and drive away!

 

[deven.coffey]

Please see the above. You should have an idea what a multimeter is for and what you are checking before proceeding with any action. Connecting a multimeter in impedance mode (in which the multimeter produces voltage) to random wires that are direct inputs to your car's computer is a bad thing.

You reported that the jumper you removed measured at .1 ohms - that is equivalent to a short, the same as measuring a piece of wire, or even touching the two multimeter probes together. That indicates the removed jumper that you plug into the harness connector is fine.

My full post above (which seems to have been ignored) gives you a testing procedure using first the voltage (not impedance) setting on a multimeter to test the ECU signal return line at the TPS sensor, and then uses the impedance setting on the multimeter to check that same signal through the harness to one of the wires at the SPOUT connector. Testing the harness wiring from the other wire of the connector to the computer would require disconnecting the battery, removing the ECU computer connector, and testing the impedance from the other pin of SPOUT connector to the correct pin on the computer's harness connector.

You may have a SPOUT error code in memory from a previous disconnection of the connector that is leading you down the wrong path. Reset and see if
the code is still being generated by your car:

1. Plug the SPOUT connector back in.

2. Disconnect one terminal of the battery for five minutes (and turn on the headlight switch too) too clear all stored memory codes.

3. Reconnect the battery

4. Start the car and let it idle for a few minutes, then take it for a drive for a few minutes. Return and shut off the car.

5. Insert the self-test jumper (correctly), and then read the KOEOff codes to see if you again get a SPOUT error code or if you now have 111 for all good.

My apologies for missing that original post, must've just lost it in among the others, I will follow the suggested procedure to the letter and report back

 

[NoSlo]

Just a couple of details to add to above:

1. some of the SHOs that I have had require much more than 5 minutes for the pcm to completely reset - one of them consistently required over an hour with the battery disconnected, even with pressing brake pedal, turning on lights, etc.

2. after you reconnect the battery, you will need to do the idle reset procedure, which is turning on all accessories and letting it idle for a minimum of 5 minutes. after that 5 minutes, you must turn the engine off, do not just jump in and drive away!

There are actually two things you can reset - Continuous memory and keep-alive memory. Continuous memory is the stored engine codes, whereas keep-alive memory is also the learned engine performance.

If you want to simply clear the codes, all you need to do is disconnect the self-test jumper the moment the codes start being displayed from the Key-On-Engine-Off test.

There is no specific "idle reset" procedure actually noted in Ford publications. Here is what it says in the powertrain control/emissions diagnosis documentation about clearing performance data:

To clear KAM: Disconnect the negative side of the battery for a minimum of five minutes.
After KAM has been cleared, the vehicle may exhibit certain driveability concerns. It will be necessary to drive the vehicle 10 miles or more to allow the processor to relearn values for optimum driveability and performance (Distance is dependent on the vehicle application).

Anecdotal evidence has been presented previously on the forum about "idle reset", generally if you present the computer with multiple engine loads and speeds while teaching it (idle, freeway cruise, hammer it to 60MPH, uphills, etc) it will more quickly adapt. It is more important in my post that the engine be up to temperature to avoid a temp out of range code when re-reading the codes than giving the car more than adequate time to learn optimum management. It doesn't need to be shut off after idling and then driven.

 

[rubydist]

I was told that the idle reset was in a service bulletin, but I have never seen the bulletin (never searched for it)

my experience is that if you just drive away after doing the idle reset, it will ignore the stuff it just 'learned' and you effectively wasted your time in that idle reset.

as you mentioned, you can reset the codes by simply disconnecting the jumper during the time in which the codes are being displayed - that is much better than disconnecting battery since it doesn't impact the other 'learning' of the pcm.

 

[frosho]

There is no specific "idle reset" procedure actually noted in Ford publications.

This is posted in the Guides subforum - idle speed reset procedure

 

[deven.coffey]

Thought of a different way to test the spout connector and I think it would work alright (at least from what I understand of the spout system)

To get some facts correct: removing the spout plug causes a 10 degree retardation in ignition timing below TDC

This results in a noticeable (if not huge) loss in power

So my logic is this, if you can just dyno the car, do it and see if it registers below 220 hp by a significant margin

OR if you're a poor college kid like me just run the car 0-60 and time it, if you're within 10% or so of the advertised time, your spout system is working correctly.

Tested the 0-60 and came up ~.3 seconds short, seems pretty reasonable to me for a car that has 160k miles also taking into account that I'm no professional shifter

Let me know what you guys think