Clutch or throwout bearing?

[rktmn]

Yesterday I began stripping the engine in order to pull it out. I decided to remove the engine instead of droppping the transmision.

This way I can replace all the hoses, seals, clean the engine up, etc. I don't have to worry about holding the engine inplace while dropping the subframe to remove the tranny.

I think that my problem is the throwout bearing. I plan to replace the clutch, even though it only has 30,000 miles, but I do not want to this again any time soon. I may also replace the steel plate in the Fidenza flywheel. I have a SPEC Level II clutch, which I liked very much so far, so I may get another one again. Unless, of course, the problem happens to be the clutch, then I will be shopping for a better one. Any suggestions???

Anyway, I beleive that SHONUT has a ceramic throwout bearing. Are these better, stronger, more reliable?


BTW... the show that I am working on, "Savage Wild" hosted by Manny Puig, debuts tonight at 11:00 PM on "OUTDOOR CHANNEL". I am the underwater camera "A" on the show and make a brief appearance. Manny rides a huge 14 FT gator. See it and beleive it.

 

[ycode90]

The SHOnut ceramic TOB is great just a little noisy . Thats a very cool job you have.

 

[rktmn]

I guess that a little more noise won't make any difference.

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/SavageWild/

You can see several short promo videos here.

www.jafphotography.com

 

[ycode90]

Awsome vids you must have brass balls the size of grapefruit. I would'nt even get off the boat. Whats up w/ the shorty shifter where you selling that kit?

 

[rktmn]

Yes I have several SHOrty Shifters finished. I posted them in the wrong forum under suspension.

Anyway, they cost $130.00 and I am offering free shipping for the time being.

If I had balls the size of grapefruits, I would be in a different business.

Seriously, it is a **** of an adventure, and shit can definitely happen.

Jose

 

[jon93]

I didn't think the Shonut ceramic TOB was different than stock concerning sound. I have heard nothing but good things about it! It's supposed to save you pressure plate fingers from premature wear and failure.

 

[rktmn]

I guess that I won't know what is wrong with the clutch until I pull the engine.

It is so dirty in there. When I did the ATX/MTX swap I replaced every sealand gasket, yet there are many places where the engine is leaking, or creating blow by. I plan to remedy all that also. My engine only has 85,000 miles, and I have religiously changed the oil.

The engine runs great. It is strong, idles very well, and does not bog down.
I do not want to do this again

Overall it is a very healthy SHO.

 

[AREA 91]

The Ceramic TOB from Mr. Joshua is well worth it!!!

I highly recomend it for every clutch job.

 

[rktmn]

I should be able to pull the engine tomorrow. I disconnected everything except the steering pump and the a/c compressor. I want to leave these in the car if possible.

Actually, I haven't encoutered any problems. Everything went smoothly.

The SHO has a tight engine compartment. It is definitely not a fun car to maintain. Fun to drive though.

I just replaced the clutch, flywheel, had the T-5 tranny rebuilt, replaced the radiator, the water pump, and replaced the sparkplug cables in my 5.0 BroncoII and that was very straight forward. Losts of room. I could actually sit up under the truck. I also replaced the driveshaft, all the suspension bushings (which I made myself out of Delrin), and painted the interior black. Next I need to address some body rust. The Delrin bushings made a huge difference in handling. They tightened the suspension trememdously.

There is plenty of room in the old Bronco II to work in the engine compartment. Everything was very accessible.

Anyway, I guess that it has to be done.

Jose

 

[Phoenix]

I didn't think the Shonut ceramic TOB was different than stock concerning sound. I have heard nothing but good things about it! It's supposed to save you pressure plate fingers from premature wear and failure.

Quoted for truth. :angelnot:

 

[38SHO]

the shonut ceramic tob is extremely loud........ it rattles around and makes u think your engine is comming apart, when u step on the clutch it goes away..... but it doesn't make noise like that all the time, just sometimes... which is wierd... but this seems to be what everyone else says happens who has this TOB so I guess its normal.......... The benefits of the ceramic TOB is that it wears the fingers on the PP less..... which is a worthwhile thing IMHO.... for longevity/reliability

what happened to your clutch/tob/pp that you think is a problem? noises? slipping?

the SHO really isn't that hard to work on, i find the rear of the engine is a little tight where some of the engine to chassis wiring connectors are located, and the PS pump is a *****... other then that its cake work....... go try to work on a Maxima or v6 honda or a cadillac northstar... they are way more complex and cramped.........

let me know if you need any help or tools, Im only about 70 miles north... I just pulled out my engine/trans from the top last weekend, wouldn't mind checking out your SHO.......

 

[rktmn]

The first symtom I noticed was the clutch began chattering in 1st gear, especially if I has 1 or 2 passengers in the car. A couple of months later I noticed that the clutch was engaging very high in the pedal travel.

I tried to adjusted by raising the pedal, but that did not work, and the engagement continued to get higher, allmost all the way at the top. It seemed to slip a bit if I floored it in fourth gear.

The pedal "feel" was strange. The pedal felt a bit "boingy" rather than smooth, and it made a strange snap noise when depressed all the way down to the floorboard.

I don't think that the clutch is worn. I am sure that it has plenty of life left, I beleive that the problem is with the pressure plate or the throwout bearing.

I should know by tomorrow when I pull the engine.

I have all the tools necessary for the job. Thanks for the offer, but I should be able to pull the engine out tomorrow.

There really isn't much to check out with my SHO, since it is going to be in parts, but I might need a hand when I put it back together again. I want the engine to be well sealed so it won't leak oil or water.

Thanks
Jose

 

[38SHO]

alright, let me know if u need help, I know whats its like trying to mount the engine/trans in by yourself, and I'm even good at that type of stuff, I used to work at a transmission place for a few years.... now I just do general auto repairs....

Saturday morning I'm on a mission to get some knuckles from a junkyard so I can mount my 11.6" brakes and get the proper length studs on the RF corner...

 

[AREA 91]

Alao buy a set of SHO NUT's Teflon coated TOB/clutch fork bushings. These make the clutch nice and smooth.

 

[CademiaX]

the shonut ceramic tob is extremely loud........ it rattles around and makes u think your engine is comming apart, when u step on the clutch it goes away..... but it doesn't make noise like that all the time, just sometimes... which is wierd... but this seems to be what everyone else says happens who has this TOB so I guess its normal.......... The benefits of the ceramic TOB is that it wears the fingers on the PP less..... which is a worthwhile thing IMHO.... for longevity/reliability

From what I know the tob is not the cause of noise, its your clutch

ask Bizzy

 

[rktmn]

I've never had any noise coming from the clutch.

Everthing is disconnected from my engine. I just need to pull it now, but I am feeling a bit lazy this weekend. I will probably pull it Monday.

Let's see what the exact problem is.

Jose

 

[38SHO]

From what I know the tob is not the cause of noise, its your clutch

ask Bizzy

thats funny, it does it with different clutches......

hey the shit runs... just a lil noisey... what can i do...

I feel you on the lazy part, its hot as **** out... I whent to pull some knuckles at the junkyard today and was sweating bullets....

 

[zak]

.... but it doesn't make noise like that all the time, just sometimes... which is wierd... but this seems to be what everyone else says happens who has this TOB so I guess its normal..........QUOTE]

Check your clutch cable tension. The SHO clutch is designed to be in constant contact with the with the TOB (whether stock or aftermarket). Problems come when clutch rebuilders grind down the pressure plate backiron, or performance clutch builders try to change pressure plate spring pivot points, your fork or fork bushings wear out, etc. All these are important for keeping the bearing lightly loaded against the fingers when your foot is off the clutch.

Also, the racheting mechanisms on the pedal "self" adjustment can wear out or seize, my 100 K mile car's one doesn't work, I have to climb under the dash and use a screwdriver to adjust it, usually one click will do it. In other words just pulling up on the clutch pedal might not get it.

If that doesn't work, take careful note of when the noise shows up. If the car hasn't been driven in awhile the fluid can slowly drain from the input shaft bearings (or your fluid can just be low) which can cause a gear rollover rattle from the trannsmission bearings/gears.

I know of one suspected rattling TOB, that upon disassembly, was found to have less than a quarter of a quart of fluid left in the trans, this made the input shaft rattle on its (dry) bearings . . . the fluid level has to be high enough for the ring gear to dip into it and fling it up through the galley system that feeds the shaft bearings in the trans.

 

[rktmn]

Pulled the engine.

The pressure plate springs are chewed up, and some of them do not line up with the rest. The rear main seal is leaking, the cam shaft seal is leaking, the valve covers have a great deal of blow by, the spark plug wells are clean, several electric plugs were halfway connected, but the engine was running well.

I will pull the clutch in the next couple of days, but I will put in a new one.

I have a SPEC Level II kevlar clutch which I liked very much. I'll take a photo of the pressure plate and post it so you can see the damage. It only has 30,000 miles.

I just replaced the clutch in my 5.0 Bronco II, and it did not have any wear on the pressure plate springs. That clutch had close to 100,000 miles.

Wat a PITA!!!

Jose

 

[rktmn]

I pulled the engine in order to change my clutch, but I also wanted to do some maintenance on the engine anyway.

I plan to change all the water hoses along with some seals and gaskets, and I may even paint the engine.



I beleive that this off center wear on the springs is what is causing my clutch to engage so high on the pedal travel. You can see the uneven wear on the PP springs. Also the 2 springs I am pointing at, sit lower than the rest.



It looks as if the TOB was putting more pressure on the right side of the springs, and, perhaps, it was not spinning with the PP.

I plan to upgrade to the ceramic TOB and the teflon forks etc...

A quick look at the TOB did not seem to be worn down, bit it does make a clacking noise when you push it out and spin it by hand. I have not taken a close look at it yet, nor have I removed the clutch from the engine.

I am not in a rush, but I will get to it soon.

I plan to replace the SPEC level 2 clutch. Although, I liked the feel of it, I am a bit dissappointed with this early death.

Any suggestions with other brands. I don't drive too hard, but I drive with spirit. I am putting out 216 WHP. At the most I may consider a 5-6 lb supercharger in the furture, which I figure could add another 60 HP. But this mod is way in the back of my mind.

Any suggestions as to what could have caused this off center wear on the springs?

Jose