Bizzy
SHO Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2001
- Messages
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This past week I did some work for someone here on one of the lists. Clutch and rod bearings. He said he got the car around 40k, and thought the clutch was original. I got in there and it was replaced at least once I'd have to say. Had quill sleeve on there and a very worn Rev B. TOB. So rod bearings go smoothly, as dose the transmission R&R, cept for the problems encountered being a rust belt car it was nothing out of the ordinary. Been here done that 4-5 times for other ppl. His car has 145k on it, now with a freshly ground FW with new dowels, reman Ford PP, and new clutch disc. Replaced the axel seals as well just to prevent any possible leaks.
Drained the tranny using the fork bolt that I think Josh mentions to use in a video (I think he said to use it), and promptly reinstalled it after it stopped draining. removed the tranny with the aid of a tranny jack (makes it easier to get it out and back into place to just slide on) drained the rest of the fluid out of the trans via the differential. Fluid was very very dark, almost black, but I didn't think that was out of the ordinary for a trans that would 100k+ on the fluid without being changed out. Cleaned up the gunk from inside the tranny case with a lot of carb cleaner and scotchbrite. pilled off the old TOB installed new SHOnut Ceramic. Bolted up fresh FW and TQ'd flywheel bolts to speck with blue loctite. Positioned Valeo disc (measured at .345in thickness which I thought was a little thick?) and bolted up the remaned PP. (Picked up Ford Clutch kit with reman PP and new disc for $240) Followed the supplement for TQ specs for the PP. first to like 12lbs, then 24lbs or something like that. Reused the PP bolts with blue Loctite on them. PP was completely seated against the FW so I know the clutch was centered.
Ok so here's the problems. Owner comes to pick up his car and I was just buttoning it up when he arrived so I didn't have a chance to take it for a spin. I should have had it done a yesterday, but it was nice out, cool in the garage, and I worked a little slower enjoying doing the work. So after long cranking to get oil pressure up (new rod bearings mind you, though after looking at them he hardly needed them, small amts of copper showing on the edge of the uppers) I go to back it out of the garage. Shifted into 4th, like I do on my car every time before going into reverse, and then went to reverse without letting off the clutch. Reverse grinds and grinds, and grinds, and begins to slow down and finally can go in. That's really weird cause I drove the car for about 10 miles before I started, and other than the very stiff clutch pedal and the little slippage the car felt fine. Slight rattle in reverse out of my driveway. The owner left his car he for me to figure out the problem, and I began to dread tearing it all back apart, and then the possibility of going inside the trans to find out what is wrong if anything. The car starts in reverse just fine, and drives all forward gears really nicely. I drove it around for about 20 miles tonight after the owner left. It will go into reverse "ok" if you go from 3rd then to reverse quickly more of a sound of gears meshing than anything else, but 1,2,4 elicit a grinding from the trans. The grinding one gets from 1,2,4 to reverse is hard to describe, but when moving from the neutral position on the travel into reverse after about 1/2 in of shifter movement, you get a little sound that sounds like normal reverse engaging, then you continue to where reverse is supposed to be and you get grinding like no tomorrow. if you force it and hold it the gear will slow down and engage, but that is not the way it should be. A friend of mine drove it, and said that his 126k mile tranny was like that before we did a quaife and new blocking rings. I'm kind of lost as to what could be going on. The car is in perfect shape, cleaner than my own car, and from what the owner tells me it's all highway miles. 1-5 forward work flawlessly and the pedal feel is perfect. 1-5 are notchy going into gear, but I say that coming from driving my short shiftered car all the time, and having fairly smooth engagement of all my gears except 2nd. Nothing was done to the internals when I had the tranny on the floor, but a part of me wished that I have recommended new blocking rings, being that they aren't all that expensive and I've felt a tranny with new ones vs. my 100k maintained ones.
So what are some of the possible causes for this and possible remedies? I don't want to drop the tranny if I can avoid it, and I don't think there is anything that I could have really done to create this problem, as a clutch job is pretty standard. A few things I have been thinking along the lines of are.
1. New Mercon III Tranny fluid (old fluid looked very very dark not metallic) is there a friction modifier that is supposed to be added? I thought I heard something somewhere about one
2. Blocking rings were shot before, and just the old fluid was allowing them to do their job properly
3. Somehow the TOB isn't completely disengaging the clutch disc (like input shaft is spinning still, but its only doing it in reverse, and if the clutch wasn't disengaged then I'd get similar problems from 1-5 I would think)
4. Something internal to the tranny is not right, and may have come loose or moved when the trans was rotated around and what not to be cleaned, and having the seals replaced.
5. Clutch pedal is not fully adjusted or the cable is a little stretched (don't think it's this as there are no clicks when I pull up on the pedal, and I would think I'd see something in the 1-5)
6. Somehow the PP is TQ'd too tight to the FW and is not allowing enough movement of the disc or the disc turns out to be a reman and is to thick not completely disengaging from the FW, yet the 1-5 gears being synchronized are able to deal with the non disengagement better than the non-synchronized reverse.
Thoughts suggestions and what not would be greatly appreciated.
Drained the tranny using the fork bolt that I think Josh mentions to use in a video (I think he said to use it), and promptly reinstalled it after it stopped draining. removed the tranny with the aid of a tranny jack (makes it easier to get it out and back into place to just slide on) drained the rest of the fluid out of the trans via the differential. Fluid was very very dark, almost black, but I didn't think that was out of the ordinary for a trans that would 100k+ on the fluid without being changed out. Cleaned up the gunk from inside the tranny case with a lot of carb cleaner and scotchbrite. pilled off the old TOB installed new SHOnut Ceramic. Bolted up fresh FW and TQ'd flywheel bolts to speck with blue loctite. Positioned Valeo disc (measured at .345in thickness which I thought was a little thick?) and bolted up the remaned PP. (Picked up Ford Clutch kit with reman PP and new disc for $240) Followed the supplement for TQ specs for the PP. first to like 12lbs, then 24lbs or something like that. Reused the PP bolts with blue Loctite on them. PP was completely seated against the FW so I know the clutch was centered.
Ok so here's the problems. Owner comes to pick up his car and I was just buttoning it up when he arrived so I didn't have a chance to take it for a spin. I should have had it done a yesterday, but it was nice out, cool in the garage, and I worked a little slower enjoying doing the work. So after long cranking to get oil pressure up (new rod bearings mind you, though after looking at them he hardly needed them, small amts of copper showing on the edge of the uppers) I go to back it out of the garage. Shifted into 4th, like I do on my car every time before going into reverse, and then went to reverse without letting off the clutch. Reverse grinds and grinds, and grinds, and begins to slow down and finally can go in. That's really weird cause I drove the car for about 10 miles before I started, and other than the very stiff clutch pedal and the little slippage the car felt fine. Slight rattle in reverse out of my driveway. The owner left his car he for me to figure out the problem, and I began to dread tearing it all back apart, and then the possibility of going inside the trans to find out what is wrong if anything. The car starts in reverse just fine, and drives all forward gears really nicely. I drove it around for about 20 miles tonight after the owner left. It will go into reverse "ok" if you go from 3rd then to reverse quickly more of a sound of gears meshing than anything else, but 1,2,4 elicit a grinding from the trans. The grinding one gets from 1,2,4 to reverse is hard to describe, but when moving from the neutral position on the travel into reverse after about 1/2 in of shifter movement, you get a little sound that sounds like normal reverse engaging, then you continue to where reverse is supposed to be and you get grinding like no tomorrow. if you force it and hold it the gear will slow down and engage, but that is not the way it should be. A friend of mine drove it, and said that his 126k mile tranny was like that before we did a quaife and new blocking rings. I'm kind of lost as to what could be going on. The car is in perfect shape, cleaner than my own car, and from what the owner tells me it's all highway miles. 1-5 forward work flawlessly and the pedal feel is perfect. 1-5 are notchy going into gear, but I say that coming from driving my short shiftered car all the time, and having fairly smooth engagement of all my gears except 2nd. Nothing was done to the internals when I had the tranny on the floor, but a part of me wished that I have recommended new blocking rings, being that they aren't all that expensive and I've felt a tranny with new ones vs. my 100k maintained ones.
So what are some of the possible causes for this and possible remedies? I don't want to drop the tranny if I can avoid it, and I don't think there is anything that I could have really done to create this problem, as a clutch job is pretty standard. A few things I have been thinking along the lines of are.
1. New Mercon III Tranny fluid (old fluid looked very very dark not metallic) is there a friction modifier that is supposed to be added? I thought I heard something somewhere about one
2. Blocking rings were shot before, and just the old fluid was allowing them to do their job properly
3. Somehow the TOB isn't completely disengaging the clutch disc (like input shaft is spinning still, but its only doing it in reverse, and if the clutch wasn't disengaged then I'd get similar problems from 1-5 I would think)
4. Something internal to the tranny is not right, and may have come loose or moved when the trans was rotated around and what not to be cleaned, and having the seals replaced.
5. Clutch pedal is not fully adjusted or the cable is a little stretched (don't think it's this as there are no clicks when I pull up on the pedal, and I would think I'd see something in the 1-5)
6. Somehow the PP is TQ'd too tight to the FW and is not allowing enough movement of the disc or the disc turns out to be a reman and is to thick not completely disengaging from the FW, yet the 1-5 gears being synchronized are able to deal with the non disengagement better than the non-synchronized reverse.
Thoughts suggestions and what not would be greatly appreciated.
