Update Turbo SHO dyno

[Axianator]

Sorry, I disagree. The MAF is just air flow and voltage. If the housing being used is not an airflow restriction, there is nothing wrong with using an extender device on the electronics. I would much prefer to use a housing that suits the application size with an extender on it, than to go to a MAF with such a larger housing that it doesn't flow well with the ducting, just to get extra range. Putting a 4" MAF in 2.5" ducting is rediculous.

Using the MAFia is no different than putting on a different MAF. It's just voltage back to the PCM. Both methods require proper calibration adjustments, and both methods do the same thing.

If we were having this discussion ten years ago when aftermartket MAF selections were much more limited, then I might agree with you. However, we now live in an age where many factory MAFs are capable of supporting much higher airflow levels than were previously thought possible or even needed. Many aftermarket MAFs push this envelope even further.

That said, why spend the extra time and cash to incorporate an aftermarket work-around solution when you already have a proven, precalibrated factory item that will fill the bill? If your existing MAF is incapable of keeping up with your engine's airflow demands, then you should replace your MAF with a unit can handle your airflow needs, provided such a unit exists. In this case, Tim already possess a suitable unit for the job. Utilizing a "MAF extending" device to compensate for your MAF's inadequacies is little better than replacing your current MAF with a C&L MAF and hoping that the "properly calibrated" sample tube will work with your stock MAF electronics.

It should also be noted that the MAF in question here is an 80mm Mark VIII MAF with a limited flow ceiling of about 1168 kg/hr. If Tim (or anyone else) is concerned about utilizing a MAF with the same inlet and outlet sizes, then one could easily graduate to the slightly-larger but higher-flowing 80mm Lightning MAF without much hassle.

Bottom line, a device like the MAFia or MAF Xtender should only be used as a last resort when there are no other options available.

 

[Power Surge]

Utilizing a "MAF extending" device to compensate for your MAF's inadequacies is little better than replacing your current MAF with a C&L MAF and hoping that the "properly calibrated" sample tube will work with your stock MAF electronics.

Sorry, you're wrong. Putting on a "calibrated" MAF is completely different. You are using a MAF that's had it's signal altered, keeping the stock x-fer, and hoping the altered MAF is somewhat correct. A bogus method for sure, and for the record I NEVER use "calibrated" MAFs.

When you "change" the MAF out for another one, you must obviously make the proper corrections in the tune for it. Then everything in the calibration is happy again, and the PCM can go on working like it should.

Using the MAFia, you have several settings available, all of which have specific tune adjustments that go with them. It is not a plug in device that "tricks" the PCM in the fashion that a calibrated MAF does. You scale the MAF voltage, and then you adjust the tune accordingly. No different than if you put on a different MAF and adjusted the tune accordingly.

As for MAF size, I do agree that you should usually use an OEM level MAF with the range and size you need, but that is not as important on a blow through application. I would much rather use a housing that flows with my piping size and scale it with the MAFia if it's needed, than to have some hokey mismatched MAF to pipe sizing that will most likely have resolution issues from poor airflow.

As for the 80mm Lincoln MAF, I know them all too well. I used them for every car built and tuning job all through the 90s, until the 80mm Lightning MAF came out in 99. Also, you keep saying that Tim's current MAF is fine for the job, but in his first post here he's said he's ******* it.

 

[Axianator]

Mods: Please delete this double post.

 

[Axianator]

Sorry, you're wrong. Putting on a "calibrated" MAF is completely different.

Just for the record, I never equated the MAFia or any other MAF extending device to a "calibrated" MAF like the C&L. I said that "utilizing a 'MAF extending' device...is little better than replacing your current MAF with a [calibrated] C&L MAF...", meaning that, in my book, MAF extenders like the MAFia barely outrank your typical, aftermarket, "calibrated" MAFs.

When you "change" the MAF out for another one, you must obviously make the proper corrections in the tune for it. Then everything in the calibration is happy again, and the PCM can go on working like it should.

Using the MAFia, you have several settings available, all of which have specific tune adjustments that go with them. It is not a plug in device that "tricks" the PCM in the fashion that a calibrated MAF does. You scale the MAF voltage, and then you adjust the tune accordingly. No different than if you put on a different MAF and adjusted the tune accordingly.

The problem I have with most MAF extenders is that they a) aren't always repeatable, and b) require additional cost and effort (above and beyond what one already paid for their MAF) on the part of the user. As I already noted in my previous reply, why go through the trouble and expense of adding yet another step to the process when that step isn't even needed in the first place?

Also, you keep saying that Tim's current MAF is fine for the job, but in his first post here he's said he's ******* it.

I never said Tim's current 80mm Mark VIII MAF was up to the task of supporting his current airflow requirements. I said that "Tim already possesses a suitable unit for the job", referring to the 90mm Lightning MAF already in his possession.

 

[NCTaurusSHO]

Sorry, I disagree. The MAF is just air flow and voltage. If the housing being used is not an airflow restriction, there is nothing wrong with using an extender device on the electronics. I would much prefer to use a housing that suits the application size with an extender on it, than to go to a MAF with such a larger housing that it doesn't flow well with the ducting, just to get extra range. Putting a 4" MAF in 2.5" ducting is rediculous.

Using the MAFia is no different than putting on a different MAF. It's just voltage back to the PCM. Both methods require proper calibration adjustments, and both methods do the same thing.

you are absolutely right. I put the 90mm on my car and you could see the MAF voltage jumping all over the place because of the pipe and maf size difference. the 80mm is just about the same size as the piping and after changing that and putting the MAFia on it was a completely different car. you WILL NOT max out the MAF...and the driveablity difference was amazing. However, we are going to insert the maf right into the piping to reduced ANY restriction and connections.

 

[Brook24v]

I'm very impressed for it being a forged piston-only 3.2L. What turbo are you running now?

I can't wait to see this car in just a few hours!!

 

[BlackonBlack89]

A turbonetics 62-1

 

[Toolman]

I would much prefer to use a housing that suits the application size with an extender on it, than to go to a MAF with such a larger housing that it doesn't flow well with the ducting, just to get extra range. Putting a 4" MAF in 2.5" ducting is rediculous.

My 80mm is actually too small, as my silicone hose is 4". I had to build a reducer to make it work. The 90mm is a perfect fit of course. But I have a draw through, so I can run some good size pipe. I would have 4" pipe but it would be a very tight fit, and I can not find a place that sells 4" mandrel bent 90's.

 

[Power Surge]

My 80mm is actually too small, as my silicone hose is 4". I had to build a reducer to make it work. The 90mm is a perfect fit of course. But I have a draw through, so I can run some good size pipe. I would have 4" pipe but it would be a very tight fit, and I can not find a place that sells 4" mandrel bent 90's.

Ah ok, I didn't realize you were doing draw through.

I can supply you with 4" mandrel bends if you need.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I'm very impressed for it being a forged piston-only 3.2L. What turbo are you running now?

I can't wait to see this car in just a few hours!!

Hey Brook, what do you mean by "forged piston-only"? Once you get forged pistsons, the ENTIRE bottome end is completely forged.

 

[Toolman]

I think he meant as in the forged piston and 3.2 bore being my only mods to the engine.

 

[ICEMAN007]

Damn, I Would Give Anything To Add A Turbo To My Sho!!!!! Fricken Sweet!!!

 

[dwarf]

Damn, I Would Give Anything To Add A Turbo To My Sho!!!!! Fricken Sweet!!!

WORD:thankyou::woohoo:

 

[Toolman]

Damn, I Would Give Anything To Add A Turbo To My Sho!!!!! Fricken Sweet!!!

Or, you could just buy this one!

 

[ManySHOs]

Is this the same 3.2 engine that Jeremy Prines built or another one?

Ian

 

[Toolman]

Same.

 

[somedude_001]

buying a modded car > making a modded car

 

[antbrdwar]

Tim.. How much are you selling it for?

 

[Toolman]

It varies. I would sell it right now (before I install the wicked cool Sparco's, recovered to match the interior), with stock wheels and brakes and shifter, without the wideband and Tweecer, for $7000. That price will not last long though.


http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=80072

 

[Phoenix]

buying a modded car > making a modded car

That statement is only true if you're speaking of $.

Making it is almost as fun as driving it. Plus you can actually answer the questions people ask you about your car/engine build.