unsatisfied with Kumhos, looking at Firehawk SZ50

[DHMag]

well, 10 months, 10K miles ago, i bought 225/55/16 V rated Kumho 712s. now theyre at the wear indicators and they still arent any better. from the get-go, wet traction was nil, dry traction was ok, i guess *shrugs*, cornering was improved, tirewear sucked.

i shopped for tires for several months, before finally getting the Kumhos, now i regret that decision. yesterday AM kinda reinforced my decision to get tires sooner.

i approached a turn lane hot, in 2nd gear. i knew i was going in hot. i knew i was going to upset the balance of the car. i knew i was going to slide the back end out. i knew i was going to be performing evasive action.

as i approached my left hand turn, i dropped to 1st at about 40 MPH. turned the wheel left i/4 turn, just as i hit the apex and begin to feather the throttle, the back end slides out. no tire squeal, no yawing or chattering. just a smooth slide. as i correct my turn, i am momentarily looking directly (whos eyes are now as big as saucers) at the guy who was behind me. the tail swings back, im pointed in my desired direction, i punch the throttle, then grab second. (never once did i disengage the clutch). i never lost control of the car, she reacted properly to my inputs, but she should have never gone into that wicked tailspin.

my Kumhos never spoke to me, they never said, "hey man, youre pushing us a little too far." so, now ill be purchasing the Firestone Firehawk SZ50 in 225/55/16. ive read the 3 reviews on SHOforum and i like what i read, so tires along with ....new wheels ? ...and maybe ill get around to my suspension now.

wrong forum ? sue me

<small>[ December 06, 2003, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: DHMag ]</small>

 

[91taurisho]

DHMag:
as i approached my left hand turn, i dropped to 1st at about 40 MPH. turned the wheel left i/4 turn, just as i hit the apex and begin to feather the throttle, the back end slides out. no tire squeal, no yawing or chattering. just a smooth slide. as i correct my turn, i am momentarily looking directly (whos eyes are now as big as saucers) at the guy who was behind me. the tail swings back, im pointed in my desired direction, i punch the throttle, then grab second. (never once did i disengage the clutch). i never lost control of the car, she reacted properly to my inputs, but she should have never gone into that wicked tailspin.

my Kumhos never spoke to me, they never said, "hey man, youre pushing us a little too far." so, now ill be purchasing the Firestone Firehawk SZ50 in 225/55/16. ive read the 3 reviews on SHOforum and i like what i read, so tires along with ....new wheels ? ...and maybe ill get around to my suspension now.

wrong forum ? sue me

I bet that was fun though, Wasn't it? naughty pcorn
Your tires DO NOT speak to you they squeel like a pig when they don't like how they are being treated. Then they pop...

<small>[ December 06, 2003, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: 91taurisho ]</small>

 

[Blue-By-U]

DHMag:
wrong forum ? sue me

Dale I moved your post to this forum because you didn't get any reponse over in the non-sho related section. This forum is more well suited for your topic.

Hopefully you can see that since you already got 1 more response than you did in the previous section thumb

PM me is you have any concerns.

 

[RStalveyARFF]

at 10k shouldn't you still have a sort of warranty on those tires?

 

[91 SHO PLUS]

I say go with the Firehawk SZ50-EP's, they are an AWESOME tire!

I just ordered a set in 235/45/17 to mount on my new Enkei RS-5's at the local Firestone Store.

Of course, my son is a tech there, and I'm getting one **** of a deal since the manager's trying to sell as many tires as possible before the end of the year. thumb

If I told y'all the total price, you probably wouldn't believe me! They would be about $650 shipped from Tirerack(not a bad price) but then you have to get them mounted/balanced somewhere, probably about $700 total. Mine are running about $150 below that!! eek!

 

[Yamaha V6]

FYI, Kirk Doucette has run both the SZ50 & the 712's. He prefers the 712's, except for when it's cold. He mentions the silica-based 712's lose their grip. They do wear faster, but they're half the cost too, IIRC. burnout

 

[cyanmauve]

I used to have 225/50 zr SZ50s on my SHO, (I got a really good deal from tirerack). You will absolutely not be disappointed by this tire. The EP is supposed to be even better too. My parents owned a SVT Contour with BFG KDW on it, and the Firestones I had on my car were at least as good and a heck of a lot quiter. Now that they've improved it with the EP, I can't imagine the performance you'll get. And good treadware too! Definately go in for these.

 

[DoC-JoneS]

i have never had any problems with my kumho's. however they are my first set of performance tires and therefore i don't have much to compare them to. Also i can't drive in such a spirited manner as you do, (gen II ATX with dead suspension). congrats on keeping her in line!

 

[SHOZ123]

I've had both the SZ50s and the SZ50 EPs. One summer is all they are worth for me. Less than 20k on each. I have also had the Kumhos 712s. I don't understand about the no warning, mine howl like crazy but have never let loose. Sounds like a severe oversteer situation brought on by other means than tires. I would buy the Kumhos again before the SZs.

I want to add too that the last set of SZs I had three flat tires. This is more than I have had in the last 20 years.

<small>[ December 07, 2003, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: SHOZ123 ]</small>

 

[projectSHO89]

I put a set of SZ50s on a 95 Mustang GT back in 98 or so.

Excellent wet traction and good street performance. Still had a lot of tread when the car was sold 14K miles later. No flat tires, either.

Steve

 

[Bizzy]

buy yourself a set of Yokohama ES 100's. I picked up a set before the convention, have 12k miles on them, and still have at least 60% tread left on them even after abusing them on the track. I drove NY to WI (2300mi roundtrip), then out to Boston a few times (400mi roundtrip times 3), then NY to IN (2000mi RT) and lost of normal driving around here locally. So after about 5000-6000miuls of highway driving, 60 miles of beating on them at Blackhawk Farm for the Convention, and 12-14 drag strip passes, and another 5-6k of day to day driving, the tires have held up remarkably. Slight scrubbing to the inner edge, but thats cause I have too much camber on all 4 wheels.

Never once going hard into any turns either at the track or just taking really good curves on some back roads or highway onramps have these tires ever yelled at me for pussing them too far. I've come close to that point a few times, but 80-90 round a 40 mph rated onramp is pushing it a little. They also have really really great wet traction, and I rode them all the way till it snowed, they do loose some traction after below 40F but they still kick *** . Guess I should take it easy with my snow tires

buy a set of all 4, yokohama even has a trial period of 30 days, so if you don't like them all your out in mounting and balancing fees, and return shipping. All in all $70-$100 to try out a set of tires isn't bad if you find that you don't like them.

 

[SHODWN]

Dale, all I can do if offer an opinion about these because everybody is different.

I honestly think that the two tire are as equal as they get, Both tires are Silica based and both get hard in colder weather. I relaize that your in Texas but I think its gettin chilly there as well.

Both tires:
1.wear very eaisly (warm weather)
2.Get hard in the cold
3.will wear off the car in no time if your alignment is off in the slightest
4. "should" get grippier with age

Just a thought here, But Ive been to several track events and aucrossed on both tires, race on back roads, and take on ramps at ludricris speeds and only once have I ever had the car step out in the wind on me. I dont want to sound like a know it all but I want to say its driver error, using the brakes at the wrong point of your apex while the car is in an off camber position. A simple and Commom mistake often made by FWD people.

If you visit track events as a spectator you will learn alot, you see 90% of people in general have spent 1000's upon 1000's to make thier car faster and handle better. its quite funny! The SHO is built fairly well from the factory, and decreasing the flex in the car can be good to a point but you go too stiff like most people do and the car becomes a handfull, and people always think its the tires, bars, bushings when in reality they did something wrong.

Go back and try the same corner again, brake or slow a bit earlier, then accerlate through the apex.

Tires can only do so much.

 

[Lance Cheney]

Hmm. I replaced the BFG KDWs on my Contour SVT with Ecsta 712s and absolutely HATE them. The traction is horrible, wet or dry. I'm just too cheap to buy new tires now, and their wear rating is, unfortunately, quite good.

I've had several different tires on the SHO. I'm currently using Goodyear GS-D3s, and they have excellent traction in the dry and the best, by far, traction in the wet that I have ever seen. The only gripe is that the sidewell is relatively soft, so the steering response is not as good as some other tires. I also used a pair of RE730s, which provided good traction in the wet and excellent traction in the dry, combined with very good treadlife. The new RE750s are supposed to be improved in every way.

The Firestone SZ50EPs should also be a very good tire, but I've shied away from them due to the extra cost over the RE-series without much benefit.

If you still have slicers, moving to a wider wheel will make a huge difference, even if you don't go to a larger diameter. 225/55-16 on 7.5-8" wheels provide a good increase in both steering response and ultimate grip.

-Lance

 

[Machspeed]

I was facing the same dilema as this guy. What tire to get. My back tires were old and bald (they were on the front) my front alignment was out so the right front tire was well on its way out and the other had a slow leak. So i started my search on tire rack. But b4 i was ready to buy online, i began to see the right front tire getting to the belts. So i had to have tires THE VERY NEXT DAY and couldnt wait for tirerack. I ended up going to winston tires in concord (I think discount tire took them over) I went there b4 and got 2 goodyears for 70 each and they worked great for me. The guy there was also very nice and helpful. I went to see what they had in 225mm, the only ones he had to fit my car were these wystar exocets. I didnt really know if i wanted to buy a no name tire, but it turns out they're actually a company under michelin. For 550 bux i got 4 tires balanced and rotated. (They were on sale) And it turns out they were Z rated not v rated! Ive had them for a few thousands miles and i love them to death. They see mostly freeway driving but i do like to go out into the hills and do some twisties and they have yet to show really any wear. They have excelent wet and dry traction. My friend put the exact some tires on his sho the next week. So if your lookin for an affordable z rated tire, check out the wynstar exocets. Ive seen them around on other cars so i think they have been gaining popularity. Sorry for the long post...

 

[TYSHO]

Reminds me of my *** end leap off the road. Maybe the weight in your trunk. IIRC, you mentioned once that you had a crap load of tools back there. When my rear end flung out, I had a speaker box with 12's in it and a full size spare in the back with other crap in the trunk too. Maybe the weight threw it out with the sudden turn it.

 

[DHMag]

Kirk,

as i entered the turn, i braked once, before turning the wheel. i turned the wheel once. i was in 1st gear at about 40MPH, still had plenty of throttle(RPM) left. during the encounter encounter, what few seconds it was, i was never on the brake or on the clutch. left foot was planted firmly where a dead pedal *should* be, right foot was feathering the throttle. both hands were on the wheel (cause i knew i was getting into trouble before i started). i hit my apex on the mark and thats when the backend broke loose on me. except for looking at the driver in front of me briefly(vehicle behind me in traffic), i had my eyes focused on 2 things, the apex (a tall curb), and the onramp to the highway. i was all the time in control of the vehicle.

this ability comes from 2 things, taking Evasive Manuevers as a senior in Law Enforcement (yes they really do teach you how to drive !), and watching/riding with a driver at an autocross track. though i attribute most of my experience to the college course and to the countless parking lots my dad and i spent TONS of time, gas, and rubber, learning to drive defensively.

the next time i attempt that corner, itll have to be without traffic. the incident in question took place at 7:05AM, in the midst of rush hour traffic. as an afterthought, i was stoooopid to be in such a hurry to make the green light, but no one got hurt and no one was injured.

as far as the tires go, ive decided to go with Potenza RE750..or maybe the 950, im not sure yet. leaning more towards the 750 though...Lance gets a thumb for the kudos on the 750.

and Brian, i emptied my trunk out, only thing back there is a y-pipe and some lightweight junk/trash. but ill never forget seeing the butt of an '89 four feet in the air, going sideways in my rearview mirror lol .

Thanks Kirk ! excellent reply and very informative thumb