Time to Pay the Piper!

[Citationdoc]

Hello again friends. It’s with some (not entirely unexpected) regret that I’ve reached the time to “pay the piper”. A couple of weeks ago I went to pass a truck and the usual rush of acceleration never happened. The car fell flat on its ass! No boost. Also getting LOW OIL PRESSURE at idle, and if that’s not enough, heat goes cool at idle as well. Took the car to my TRUSTED mech to have a look-see today, and he says both turbos are shot. Smoke test reveals no boost leaks and both turbos puking oil BADLY. I knew this day would come, car is my DD and has 167K on it so no real surprise here. I’m going to replace the turbos, new timing chains, and replace water pump. Also considering replacing the oil pump but my mech is hesitant. He hasn’t looked at the procedure but thinks that the pump is buried in the engine down by the pan. I thought it was on the front of the block like the water pump, and driven by the chains? I can’t get my manuals disk to run on my new laptop due to company security software. Can someone shed light on oil pump R&R? I was considering upgrading turbos to ATP but after a long discussion with the friendly folks at Livernois I’m reconsidering that idea. With as many miles on the rotating assy it was suggested that pushing it harder MIGHT lead to spinning a bearing or similar awe full stuff. This made a lot of sense. Since the car is my DD and I don’t track it, pushing it too hard might be a bad choice. I really enjoy the looks of disbelief when I leave Hemi’s at the line, but don’t want to risk trashing the motor just to get a few tenths faster. So with this in mind, any recommendations on replacement turbos? I love this car and would really like to keep it for another 150K but not dump ridiculous $$$ on it. Thoughts, comments, ands snide remarks welcome!

 

[SHOdded]

So sorry to hear! But luckily not unexpected for these engines. Replace turbos + both oil lines/gaskets.

The oil pump as you stated is right there, easy peasy to remove once you get behind the main cover. It rarely fails, but since you are in there why not. Cheap enough parts cost. Use motorcraft parts for best longevity.

Upgrading to ATPs will not hurt your engine. Same power, less boost. Tune simply has to account for them. If anything, I think you will like the performance of the ATPs. I believe they are worth the investment for another 150K of well-running engine.

Check and clean the intercooler (as per procedure in HOWTO on EBPF). Not so easy to remove and properly clean, so this is the next best option. Flush the coolant, replace with Motorcraft Orange.

Have you done a Blackstone UOA to see if there is any internal damage? That would tell you if the engine is worth repairing. What oil have you been using? Compression tested the engine? Does your mechanic do borescoping? To check out the buildup on the back of the intake valves primarily.

 

[SM105K]

Liked Shodded said, upgrading the turbos will not hurt the motor. It will actually be more efficient, depending on tune. I would love to make 350 wheel horsepower on 11 psi vs 16 psi all day.

 

[luigisho]

I think an oil analysis is not a bad idea. Whenever I see low oil pressure light I immediately think of rod bearing wear. With that many miles I would be tempted to take a look and replace them. I'm more paranoid than an average car owner though.

 

[luigisho]

I love this car and would really like to keep it for another 150K but not dump ridiculous $$$ on it.

The eternal quandary of SHO ownership from the 1989 model to the present. Usually the heart strings for these cars are attached to your wallet

 

[SM105K]

The eternal quandary of SHO ownership from the 1989 model to the present. Usually the heart strings for these cars are attached to your wallet

No truer words have been spoken. I owned my 93 in 2004 and being young and in the service, I was not able to afford the upkeep and things that had started failing. As much as it hurt to sell, it was the best decision for me at the time.

 

[Majestic]

Honestly, I'd just get another (much) lower mile SHO and swap your mods onto it.

 

[luigisho]

Looks like the pump is on the front of the block driven by crankshaft.
https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP701106

Is there an oil pressure sending unit that could cause oil pressure issues?

 

[Citationdoc]

Looks like the pump is on the front of the block driven by crankshaft.
https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP701106

Is there an oil pressure sending unit that could cause oil pressure issues?

Yes there is. Unfortunately it is only a pressure SWITCH, not a pressure transducer. Only way to know actual pressure is to tap a gauge into the switch port.

 

[Citationdoc]

Honestly, I'd just get another (much) lower mile SHO and swap your mods onto it.

As much as I’d like to do this, the amount of work would be daunting. I’d be looking at swapping coilovers, calipers, rotors, lighting, etc. All that coupled with what I still owe (about $9k) just doesn’t make getting a new car a practical option.

 

[Citationdoc]

So sorry to hear! But luckily not unexpected for these engines. Replace turbos + both oil lines/gaskets.

The oil pump as you stated is right there, easy peasy to remove once you get behind the main cover. It rarely fails, but since you are in there why not. Cheap enough parts cost. Use motorcraft parts for best longevity.

Upgrading to ATPs will not hurt your engine. Same power, less boost. Tune simply has to account for them. If anything, I think you will like the performance of the ATPs. I believe they are worth the investment for another 150K of well-running engine.

Check and clean the intercooler (as per procedure in HOWTO on EBPF). Not so easy to remove and properly clean, so this is the next best option. Flush the coolant, replace with Motorcraft Orange.

Have you done a Blackstone UOA to see if there is any internal damage? That would tell you if the engine is worth repairing. What oil have you been using? Compression tested the engine? Does your mechanic do borescoping? To check out the buildup on the back of the intake valves primarily.

Thanks as always Manu! I haven’t done an oil analysis, do you have a link? I’d like to have a better idea that the rotating assy isn’t making metal! Valves look good, and had BG intake treatment done when I R&R’d the injectors 4 months ago. I will be doing coolant flush and CAC cleaning. My mechanic seems reasonably confident that once the turbos are replaced, the oil pressure issue will resolve but it just seems prudent to go ahead and replace the oil pump while we’re in there doing chains and water pump.

 

[SHOdded]

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests/standard-analysis/

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/products/free-test-kits/

Approx 10% discounted for 6 pks, but most people just need a couple tests run.

 

[Christian]

I have used Blackstone Labs countless times. However, recent discussions I've seen on BITOG, and numerous other sites, have poo-poo'd them. Suggestions and recommendations were given for better analysis labs that do a far better job of doing a proper analysis. The issue seems to be their woefully lacking testing of fuel dilution. They also don't test for oxidation.

 

[Shadow351]

I had gotten a couple low oil pressure warnings in my 2010, so I replaced the oil pressure switch (didn't help), then I got a harbor freight oil pressure gauge and an "oil filter sandwich adapter" (https://www.amazon.com/GlowShift-Oi...TF8&qid=1544210076&sr=8-1&keywords=B007SXL754) to use it without removing/tapping into the stock sensor location.

When I had the timing cover off to replace the timing set (to fix a startup rattle) I also replaced the oil pump with a FoMoCo unit which was about $40 from my Ford dealer. If you have the timing set off, changing the pump only takes about 5 minutes. I also switched to 5W-30 (5W-20 was the recommended oil weight in 2010) and haven't had an oil pressure warning since.

 

[SHOdded]

Yes there are other labs that go more in depth, and cost correspondingly more. The tests Blackstone runs are well priced for the average consuner. You can go all out and Dyson do the analysis ... at 5x the base price. So all depends on what u are looking for. Plus you wont find very much comparative Dyson analysis. Blackstone, for better or worse, is ubiquitous. The analysts viewpoints are usually quite funny tho.

I have used Blackstone Labs countless times. However, recent discussions I've seen on BITOG, and numerous other sites, have poo-poo'd them. Suggestions and recommendations were given for better analysis labs that do a far better job of doing a proper analysis. The issue seems to be their woefully lacking testing of fuel dilution. They also don't test for oxidation.

 

[Citationdoc]

Yes there are other labs that go more in depth, and cost correspondingly more. The tests Blackstone runs are well priced for the average consuner. You can go all out and Dyson do the analysis ... at 5x the base price. So all depends on what u are looking for. Plus you wont find very much comparative Dyson analysis. Blackstone, for better or worse, is ubiquitous. The analysts viewpoints are usually quite funny tho.

We do SOAP (Standardized Oil Analysis Protocol) on jets as a matter of routine. All I want to know is if the engine is making metal, and if so from what component (bearings, cylinder walls, crank or cams). I assume Blackstone includes this kind of info?

 

[SHOdded]

yes. it is very basic, but there is no need to get really detailed for what you need to make a decision here. you do need to know what is "normal" for an ecoboost engine, then take it from there. Ecoboost engines wear more metal than the naturally aspirated ones. A 3.5EB may make say 30 ppm per 10K, while a naturally aspirated 3.5 will make only 6 ppm over 10K. Will be pretty easy to tell if there is a problem.

markathome has a sample Blackstone report he provided some time ago:

 

[Citationdoc]

Thanks for that Manu! Definitely going to start that program. Now for next question..my new company laptop won’t allow me to run my Taurus maintenance manuals disk. I need the parts list for oil supply and return tubes. Additionally, I believe there are coolant lines as well? The new turbos I’ve decided on come with gaskets, but I need to know what all else I’ll need to install them. Anyone able to help with part numbers or at least what parts I’ll need in addition to the gaskets? Thanks!

 

[SHOdded]

Is it company policy or is it a tech issue? If you are not allowed to install programs, as is common nowadays, that def makes you SOL.

As for the parts list, you can look those up on a dealer website or at parts.ford.com. Yes there are coolant lines as well. Not sure if the oil/coolant lines come with screens or you have to purchase separately.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Not sure if the oil/coolant lines come with screens or you have to purchase separately.

I do wonder if unfiltered oil is better than no oil.

Side thought, nothing to back it up.

Carry on.