Time for a new starter on 2011?

[jchaase]

check this video I took this morning:

There are three starts in the video. It gets progressively worse. The third start isn’t even as bad as it sometimes is - can be 2-3 seconds of engagement after start sometimes.

Is this a mechanical issue where the starter is staying engaged (but not energized), or is the computer not receiving the message the engine has started and keeps applying power?

I reviewed the shop manual and the starter doesn’t look too bad... accessible from top. But if this isn’t a physical problem with the starter, I don’t want to waste the time.

Thoughts appreciated!

 

[krewat]

Sounds like the Bendix isn't kicking out. The only way to know for sure if the computer is doing it is to put a volt meter on the solenoid and see if the voltage holds after the engine is started. Because a digital volt meter only updates like every half second or even more, a real "needle" volt meter would come in handy for this. If the voltage holds the entire time the starter is engaged after the engine starts, it's the computer.

I'd think there should be a starter solenoid in the engine compartment somewhere. The small wire going to it would be the place to check the voltage, between that and ground.

 

[krewat]

On second thought, a sticky relay before the starter solenoid could do this too. But in my humble opinion, it really sounds like the starter Bendix is just getting sticky.

 

[krewat]

Oh, and jeez, sorry to post three times, but - this is push-button start, right?

 

[jchaase]

Yes, push-button start. And was thinking same thing on digital meter - not sure if I even know anyone with a needle-gauge one. Thanks for the input.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Digital multimeter will be good enough. An analog meter is not necessary. If you want to K.I.S.S. use a test light. There is a solenoid on the starter that is controlld by a relay and subsequently the PCM. The PCM is looking for a certain R.P.M. before it disables the starter. Watch the small wire at the starter with a test light and you'l likely find a starter issue.

I have a hard time thinking a relay would stick like that and it doesn't sound like you have a long crank condition as it seems to pop off after the tipical 5? "Ta ta ta tas" if that makes $ (describing the sound the engine makes cranking).

 

[krewat]

I always forget about using a test light. Relays get funky (and so do starter solenoids) when the battery is run down and the amperage shoots up. They like to weld themselves together

 

[jchaase]

Start post-repair:

My apologies for never responding on this... got new starter in there this past weekend, problem resolved. I never realized that there was no major "spindown" sound after the engine started. There is now, so the first suggestion on the Bendix was correct, it appears. A couple points:

1. Replacement starter had the positive lead going in to the housing aimed to the right, close to where the negative post is at on the solenoid. The lead needs to be switched to the left side by removing the bolt and then moving the connector to the opposite side. Otherwise the negative connection is too close to the positive wire, it shorts out, and blows the starter fuse when you try to start it (ask me how I know). Returned one starter b/c of this wire being on the "wrong side," but after the second one from another source was the same way, I just flipped it.

2. This really is a piece of cake to replace - in/out, 15 minutes. There's no need to get a new starter when it's this easy to get out of there - just get a reman with a warranty and be on your way.

3. The only thing to remove other than the negative battery cable is the little plastic clip holding the transmission cable to the transmission. Pry up and slide to the right. Move cable to side.

 

[SHOdded]

Hurrah!

 

[shaker281]

Thank you for the detailed follow up. Drives me a bit nuts when people ask for advice and then never post the fix!

 

[Johnbigdog]

Thank you for the detailed follow up. Drives me a bit nuts when people ask for advice and then never post the fix!

Stay away from squirrels, ok?

 

[SHOdded]

LOL

 

[sperold]

On the cars that shut off when you sit at a light, I have wondered if they have done something that allows the starter to survive this situation. It has to be 2 or 3 Xs (at least) the normal driving number of starts.

The smaller displacement motors help, along with not ultra high compression, but is there some other technology that has taken hold that makes this possible?

 

[SHOdded]

Starters are different, at least on the Edge, for stop start vs no stop start. Surprisingly the stop start starters are significantly cheaper (!). The battery however is stronger on the stop start system. Costwise, battery + starter is about same for both systems.

No idea how that all plays out tho.