Sway Bar Combo for Stock ATX

[Old Stang]

Platform: stock 94 ATX with 20.6mm (F)/21mm (R) sway bars

Disclaimer: I'm going to keep this SHO stock with the possibility of some bolt-on mods. It will be a pleasure driver as opposed to a daily and no possibility of auto-x or track time. Understanding that "feel" is a very subjective term, I tend to like a firm but comfortable ride with flat cornering at reasonable highway off-ramp speeds... nothing crazy. My first task is to make sure all bushings/components/brakes are in good shape, along with new tires (225/55-16, BFG G-force Comp-2 A/S) and a fresh alignment along with some seat miles before changing anything... if I like it as is, then I'm done. Yes, I have done the forum search and read the posts... lots of serious track combo input, but I'm looking for input from street driving experiences. That said, I have the following question (apologies for the long info setup).

Question: If you have driven a Gen 2 ATX with a 20.6mm/23mm sway bar combo, what are your impressions of the driving "feel" around town and highway?

 

[zoomlater]

I'm interested in hearing as well. I have a 23mm rear sway (from my 92) ready to go on my stock 94 ATX, but it will probably get new monroe struts/moog springs along with it.

so you have already seen this?

http://taurus.heliohost.org/pages/susp.htm

 

[Old Stang]

so you have already seen this?

http://taurus.heliohost.org/pages/susp.htm

Thanks for the link. Yes, I do recall reading through this. Some very good info, just that most/all of the testimonials involving a 20.6mm FSB paired it with a 26mm RSB, the only ATX with this combo gave a characterization of "... predictable/tossable". I like the "predictable" portion, not sure what to make of the "tossable" ... easily induced over-steer?

I suspect that even if I am satisfied with the 20.6/21 combo, I may try the 23mm in the rear to feel the difference and judge from there.

 

[rubydist]

As long as you drive the car moderately and not in any kind of "at the limit" situation, you will likely not tell the difference between the 21mm and 23mm rear bars. The 23mm rear bar reduces understeer, but for normal cruising you are not having a problem with the amount of understeer there is with the 21mm bar. You will notice the difference if you are in an emergency situation and you need to swerve very quickly at higher speed, or if you are tracking the car in some type of auto cross event.

Which of those is better for you frankly depends on how good of driver you are. Most people are not great drivers, and in emergency situations tend to steer far too much. In that situation, having a healthy amount of understeer is good because it can prevent the vehicle from spinning out from the driver's too great of steering input. However, if you are a good driver and do not turn the wheel too far, then you will be happier with the more neutral handling vehicle because it is more predictable.

 

[Old Stang]

hahaha... great input, you bring up the ultimate performance (or non-performance) addition to any vehicle... the driver!
Sadly, it's my opinion that almost every driver out there thinks they are a "good driver", some even a "great driver"... some truly are, most are not, as stated. Another great point you make is that being a good driver can be situationally dependent.
All I can candidly say about myself as a driver, as much as the "protective Ego" will allow I suppose, is that I am no stranger to over-steer, I have owned several v8, RWD Mustangs with posi-traction over the years and over-steer was common place... it only bothers me when the rear and front of the car want to swap positions.
That being said, FWD + some power (even a stock SHO) is a different ball game. Though this is not my first SHO, had a stock 94 ATX (Emerald/Gray) in the late 90's, I still have a lot to learn about the handling characteristics of these cars, but I am looking forward to more seat time (on the road) in pursuit of that goal.
Thanks again for your inputs, very insightful.

 

[NoSlo]

21.x/26 here, I upgraded pretty early on, and it handles pretty good, have been conscious of the tendency it should have to lose the back sooner cornering while keeping the front on the ground, but just isn't a concern until you do a lot more stiffening of the suspension and frame.

 

[BaySHO Performance]

What Vadim Federovsky at the SHO Shop had to say:

at the SHO Shop had to say:

 

[PaulTAutoX]

Great comments here and that other thread has some good info, though you sort of have to go with consensus opinion as there is a lot of variation.
"Stock" class in SCCA autocross, my '92 had the 24f/23r. It was reasonably tight handling in normal use but in a competitive situation such as autocross, where you are really trying to get back on the gas as soon as possible in a turn, the car would just light up the inside front due to the open diff. If you are just carving corners or avoiding errant drivers, you'll probably appreciate the extra stiffness as it gives you a shorter time between turning the wheel and the car taking the set of its maximum lean, which will be slightly less in lean. So for average street use, I'd say that 24/23 is a fine combo. Upgrading shocks will have a similar effect of slightly quicker response to a turn. Not sure which shocks are available right now, Konis are probably stiffer than you are wanting, but something that is a little tighter than stock will probably be satisfying.

For the competitive situation I put the wagon front bar (I think it was 20.5?) on to improve the front wheel traction. (going to a smaller bar at one end was allowed for Stock.) Our babies are no Miatas and the better traction due to less side to side transfer in a corner, played to the horsepower strength of the car, and didn't slow down the cornering much. Even with 20/23 I did not find a strong tendency to oversteer, it was quite difficult to get the car to lose the rear end. Again, this is not a situation that occurs in casual driving.

Since I was looking for maximum grip once I moved out of Stock class (now called Street) I went through various combinations of stiffening both ends with Intrax, Eibach springs, the monster SHOShop 29mm rear bar, polyurethane bushings, TPR bushings on the front tension struts, then put on coilovers to allow even more adjustability with Koni inserts. Oh, and a Quaife limited slip. This is of course far beyond what you have stated that you are looking for.

As noted the most important upgrade is the nut behind the wheel and it is worthwhile to take a school or attend a few autocrosses to learn how it handles at the limit, in a safe environment. If you know what to do in the rare occasion that the rear end twitches (steering into the slide, and if possible a touch more FWD throttle) you'll never spin the car.

 

[Old Stang]

Thanks all, I really appreciate the real world experiences you have relayed.