Smoke pic - Maybe time for head gasket job

[Rubix]

Signs and smells pointing to head gasket. Not sure how this could've happened, the car hasn't overheated. This car has always run hot, especially in the summer. I've been DDing it to work lately, it's been performing fine - loving the cold morning air, and in these recent cold weeks it hasn't gotten too hot at all.

So anyway, started the car up last night, seemed unusually low on power on startup. Slow to crank as if the starter was going out (this would be literally the 6th starter in 2 years). I knew the alternator and battery were good after having recent and resolved issues. Car didn't feel right once running. Sounded off, lower tone, and slightly muffled; was also shaking a little bit as if the mounts were bad. I hop out, a bit of smoke in the exhaust. I turned it off and drove the other car.

Today kevinspann is at the house and we start it up. Same deal, and now that it's daylight, it's confirmed that yea we got some smoke! It wasn't bad at first but was noticeable. After a minute or two running it gets thicker. We turned the car off and realized water was dripping out of the mufflers. No change in coolant or oil levels. No coolant in the oil on the dipstick (yet). No oil in the coolant (yet). Pulled front 3 spark plugs off, no green inside. Will check the rear 3 tomorrow and probably drain the coolant. Not tearing into it until we do a compression test. I'm hoping this is savable since it doesn't seem to detrimental (yet).

Just throwing this out there:
Since 2009, this car has had the thermostat replaced, radiator flushed, water pump replaced, and it's on it's 2nd radiator cap. I know how to burp the cooling system. I've always been mindful of these things to prevent a BHG since this car has always run unusually hot.

Anyway, I'm awake and bored, and while slightly embarrassed about the situation figured I'd post. Any suggestions here? I keep reading things like change the radiator cap. Change the thermostat. These suggestions don't have me feeling optimistic.
On the bright side, I now might be able easily to find my exhaust leak! Smoke was also coming from rear of engine and blowing downward, I think the leak is in the y-pipe.

 

[kevinspann]

I concur.

Embarrassed about what? Shit breaks. To anyone reading, the car got pretty warm according to the gauge - but there was never any sign it was going to/did boil over, and the fan does work.

We only ran the car for a couple minutes at most when I decided to take the radiator cap off, at which point it started spitting coolant out like it was under pressure - I didn't think it would be at that time, since the car hadn't run long.

I'd assume that the HG failed between the water jacket and the combustion chamber, so coolant gets in and burns off, but doesn't get in the oil and vice-versa.

Smoke is pretty thick, doesn't quit, and Jamie liked the smell of it (sweet)



Time to take someone else's car apart for a change

 

[the bone]

If you start a car in cold weather and let it run for a few minuets then shut it off than there is a good chance all that smoke is condensation in the muffler. You can smell antifreeze in the exhaust if that is the case. A blown head gasket will defiantly turn you're oil into a milkshake. Did you check all the plugs to make sure one isnt wet.

 

[sperold]

On these cars, the exhaust always looks like there is too much stuff coming out. It seems to be a trait.
Do the standard things like pressurize the cooling system with the rad cap pump device, and check your codes.
If it has never boiled over or anything major like that, then I doubt the head gaskets went bad.
If the gauge is high at all times, then it is the gauge, or the thermostat, or the outside of your rad has a lot of crap stuck to it.
It may not help much, but pull the spout connector to see if it runs any differently.
I would go after trying to diagnose the symptoms that are not related to the smoke. Like I said at the first, I have seen water pour out my exhaust, depending on the weather, only to have absolutely none a day later.

 

[sdpatt]

That is what my cloud looked like on cold mornings when the #5 cylinder communicated with the cooling system through the leaking head gasket. Coolant would enter the cylinder after the engine was turned off and the cooling system was under pressure. The leak on my car would affect engine smoothness only on startup - until the coolant was boiled off. After that, the engine perfomed quite normally.

I hope the leak in your engine is on the front head. At least that head can be accessed and pulled with the engine still in the car without too much interference.

 

[Rubix]

Confirmed. Coolant in cylinder 2. #1 is clear, #2 coolant, didn't check 3 since there's too much crap in the way and I saw enough in #2. 4-6 are fine.

:shakehead

 

[zach44102]

Confirmed. Coolant in cylinder 2. #1 is clear, #2 coolant, didn't check 3 since there's too much crap in the way and I saw enough in #2. 4-6 are fine.

:shakehead

Well that sucks. But at least Kevin is near you and from what I hear he likes taking apart stuff and putting it back together.

 

[sperold]

I guess the gauge was right all along. Any chance it can be fixed with an internal sealer?
Good luck with the repair, and sorry to hear the findings.

 

[Rubix]

Maybe a sealer could fix it, I mean I haven't seen oil in the coolant (haven't drained it yet though) nor have I seen coolant in the oil. But cylinder 2 is definitely a green pool. Might as well tear it down, got some other things I can fix while in there and it will be a great learning experience. So who's got some nice low mileage 3.2 heads to sell me?

 

[zach44102]

Maybe a sealer could fix it, I mean I haven't seen oil in the coolant (haven't drained it yet though) nor have I seen coolant in the oil. But cylinder 2 is definitely a green pool. Might as well tear it down, got some other things I can fix while in there and it will be a great learning experience. So who's got some nice low mileage 3.2 heads to sell me?

**** it with fire.

 

[rubydist]

I have a good rear 3.2 head. pm me if you want it.

but why not just refresh the ones you have?

 

[kevinspann]

Let's get it apart first, then determine if we need a head. Wanna do both HGs?

 

[Rubix]

Yea I've been thinking of a list of things to buy and do while in there.

-Both HGs
-spark plugs (I'll throw these ones in garage inventory, they've been in since '09)
-plug wires (**** I've never changed'm, could be original for all i know)
-temp senders/sensors - everything temperature related
-thermostat (replaced it on '09 but it's gettin replaced again, cheap might as well)
-front main (i've still got some oil leaking somewhere)
-oil filter gasket (I KNOW this is leaking, killing my starters every couple months)
-new hoses and vacuum lines (they're mostly all original AFAIC)
-Valve seals

Will likely be adding to the list. Might replace EGR and emissions crap too. Will definitely be cleaning all passages out again. Maybe some high comp pistons? Aggressive cams?
Nah

 

[kevinspann]

MTX. **** that EGR noise.

 

[Racer X]

Damn, I threw out my 3.2L heads this summer. Sorry Jaime.

I would do the valve seals while the heads are off.

 

[Rubix]

MTX. **** that EGR noise.

Dude how many f****n times I told you, we'll do that when the ATX goes. With my luck we'll prolly be doing that in the spring

Ah thanks Hamal. As many threads as I've read thru over the past 2 days about smoke you'd think I'd have thought to put that on the list.

 

[rubydist]

-oil filter gasket (I KNOW this is leaking, killing my starters every couple months)

its most likely the gasket behind the oil cooler. fixed mine this summer - no more oil spots under the car!

 

[boat]

If you are going to tear it down that far, why not put some 3.0 cams in there? I would think you could get some of the same benefit the 3.2 MTX guys have with the 3.0 cams. If you did this, at least when you got ready to do the MTX swap, you wouldn't have to swap heads, just trim for the front head to clear the alternator, or do a one belt drive MTX set up, using the ATX accessories. I have been kinda thinking about doing this one, myself.

 

[Rubix]

I'm going to go ahead and use this thread as a place to show pictures from the experience. And, once again my camera had defaulted to a small resolution

Right off the bat I saw some interesting signs. Notice the tan paste. Also had a little bit of it on the back of the throttle plate.



Intake off


After removing the front valve cover I looked closely. Looks like some coolant in the puddles of oil.


Belt and a couple pullies off.


What's that yellow thing in the previous picture? SHOSource ATX timing belt tensioner. Thank you SHOSource for providing fresh parts to keep my car on the road for a few months until the next thing breaks


You'll notice in that previous picture a lot of oil! I mentioned in thread about Ford Cam Seals being discontinued that I used Timken seals two years ago. At this point it looks like the rear one is leaking already and has been for a little while.


In fact, yes, this rear seal has definitely been leaking. If you have a pool of oil under your power steering pump then yes your real cam seal leaks!

Honestly that pool isn't as bad as it was when I replaced the seals two years ago.

Will update more later.

 

[SHOhopefull]

Damn Jamie, hate to hear that... You thought about freshening the rod bearings too while you're there? If there was coolant mixed in there, I'd at least want to check 'em...