SHOSHOP Brake kit hitting LCA?

[1993MTXSHO]

Well I have a shoshop 12.5" brake kit, it is designed to fit under stock slicers so it moved the rotor slightly inward, and it seems that it really doesn't work. It is literally touching the rotor, or is about .000001" away from it. Has anyone ever had this problem or heard of a problem like this with this kit? Did I do something wrong or does this kit just suck because someone didn't do research before producing it?

Pic after everything is bolted up:

 

[raff18]

ya id say thats no good looks like u need a spacer behind the rotornot much of one that would be my fix for that

 

[projectSHO89]

The problem likely isn't the brake kit. More likely, it's an after market (ie, Moog) LCA that is larger than the original LCA.

I ran into this problem a couple of years back when an owner asked me to install new Moog LCAs onto his car that was already equipped with oversized brakes.

In my case, it was necessary to get out the angle grinder and remove a little of the LCA so the rotor would clear it.

Steve

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

I hate that... just when you think you're done you find out you've got more work to do. I would get a spacer.

 

[Shoaz]

Did I do something wrong or does this kit just suck because I didn't do research before installing it?

Fixed that for you.

Yeah, tons of these kits on the road, designed by one of the more reputable aftermarket brake suppliers, and it doesn't work. Go figure.

There's a very well-known interference issue with the edge of the LCA and the inner rim of the inside face of the brake rotor. IIRC, this was even documented on Baer's installation instructions. Whether Vadim passed that info along with the SHOShop kits is unknown to me, but that's all moot because it's unlikely a used kit would be sold with the installation instructions, anyway.

It looks like your LCA is not properly installed, i.e., it appears that it's not even in the socket, because from that angle it looks like it shouldn't be that low on the rotor.

Once things are where they should be, it's a good idea to grind the lower edge off of the LCA so that it clears the rotor. This is no big deal, just about everybody who installed these kits did this with no problem. When you're done the LCA will look something like this:




First order of business is fix whatever you did wrong that keeps everything from going together, i.e., get the LCA where it is supposed to be. No spacers should be needed if everything was done correctly, and the only time the LCA and rotor should be at risk of interference is when the suspension is in bump. In droop it should clear fine.

I don't know whether there were differences between the SHOShop and Baer kits. If there were and you really have a SHOShop kit, ignore everything I said. Consider that if the kit were installed successfully on another car, though, that the design may not be the problem.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

I hate that... just when you think you're done you find out you've got more work to do. I would get a spacer.

Tell me about it, this has happened more times with this car then any other car I ever worked on. I am on my 3rd axle I had to order now and go pick up because the place cant seem to get it right.

The problem likely isn't the brake kit. More likely, it's an after market (ie, Moog) LCA that is larger than the original LCA.

I ran into this problem a couple of years back when an owner asked me to install new Moog LCAs onto his car that was already equipped with oversized brakes.

In my case, it was necessary to get out the angle grinder and remove a little of the LCA so the rotor would clear it.

Steve

Fixed that for you.

Yeah, tons of these kits on the road, designed by one of the more reputable aftermarket brake suppliers, and it doesn't work. Go figure.

There's a very well-known interference issue with the edge of the LCA and the inner rim of the inside face of the brake rotor. IIRC, this was even documented on Baer's installation instructions. Whether Vadim passed that info along with the SHOShop kits is unknown to me, but that's all moot because it's unlikely a used kit would be sold with the installation instructions, anyway.

It looks like your LCA is not properly installed, i.e., it appears that it's not even in the socket, because from that angle it looks like it shouldn't be that low on the rotor.

Once things are where they should be, it's a good idea to grind the lower edge off of the LCA so that it clears the rotor. This is no big deal, just about everybody who installed these kits did this with no problem. When you're done the LCA will look something like this:

First order of business is fix whatever you did wrong that keeps everything from going together, i.e., get the LCA where it is supposed to be. No spacers should be needed if everything was done correctly, and the only time the LCA and rotor should be at risk of interference is when the suspension is in bump. In droop it should clear fine.

I don't know whether there were differences between the SHOShop and Baer kits. If there were and you really have a SHOShop kit, ignore everything I said. Consider that if the kit were installed successfully on another car, though, that the design may not be the problem.

Why would I think a brake kit DESIGNED FOR THE SHO would not fit when it was installed on someone else's car already? I see no reason why I would have had to research, especially when I had one of these kits already and it bolted up no problem. I do have the moog LCA's so that may be part of the problem. I have one of the LCA's that the guy had on his car with this kit so I will reference it and grind mine the same way. He said he has the instructions for the kit but never gave them to me when I got the kit. He said he meant to tell me that I have to grind the LCA a little bit to make it work as per Baer's instructions. So it looks like that is my problem, I have moogs and on top of that they are supposed to be ground down anyway. I will just do some grinding as I really don't like the idea of the wheel spacer

 

[JEM]

Why would I think a brake kit DESIGNED FOR THE SHO would not fit when it was installed on someone else's car already?

First off, let's clarify. It's not a SHO Shop kit, it's a Baer kit.

The control-arm interference issue, and grinding the arm for clearance, is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED IN THE BAER KIT INSTRUCTIONS.

What isn't documented is that in hard track use you'll find the hot rotor causes the ball joint boot to pop and squirt grease on the rotor. This leads to you getting black-flagged for the big trail of flame coming out of your wheel. Been there, done that, TWICE. So once you've got it assembled wrap that boot in silver duct tape. For street use, doesn't happen.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

First off, let's clarify. It's not a SHO Shop kit, it's a Baer kit.

The control-arm interference issue, and grinding the arm for clearance, is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED IN THE BAER KIT INSTRUCTIONS.

What isn't documented is that in hard track use you'll find the hot rotor causes the ball joint boot to pop and squirt grease on the rotor. This leads to you getting black-flagged for the big trail of flame coming out of your wheel. Been there, done that, TWICE. So once you've got it assembled wrap that boot in silver duct tape. For street use, doesn't happen.

Thanks for that but I don't have the instructions, I bought the kit used and had no idea about this. No normal person would ever think of something like this, but anyway, thanks for that tip, I'll wrap the boots up to try to keep the grease cooler, especially since they aren't greaseable so that grease is going to take a beating

 

[Shoaz]

Why would I think a brake kit DESIGNED FOR THE SHO would not fit when it was installed on someone else's car already?

Exactly, which is why it seems strange that someone would ask:

Did I do something wrong or does this kit just suck because someone didn't do research before producing it?

No normal person would ever think of something like this...

Is that because all other aftermarket part installations don't require any rework of existing parts? :shakehead

 

[JEM]

Thanks for that but I don't have the instructions, I bought the kit used and had no idea about this.

How did I know that?

I will note that you do seem to have even less clearance than I recall, the rotor should not be hard-up against the balljoint housing all the time. Maybe those arms are a different (fatter) casting out at the balljoint end?

No normal person would ever think of something like this

It's not obvious, true, but it is critical.

When I sold off my 12.5in kit I gave the guy who bought it my old LCAs because, although they were pretty old and still had the split boots under the tape, they were a good illustration of how much material had to be removed. I may still have the instructions in my file, if you want to see it; if you can PM me a fax # I'll see what I can do.

Don't assume that because it clears when the vehicle is sitting still on the ground that it's going to clear when the car is moving. Make sure to test for clearance with the suspension compressed and with the steering turned.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

How did I know that?

I will note that you do seem to have even less clearance than I recall, the rotor should not be hard-up against the balljoint housing all the time. Maybe those arms are a different (fatter) casting out at the balljoint end?



It's not obvious, true, but it is critical.

When I sold off my 12.5in kit I gave the guy who bought it my old LCAs because, although they were pretty old and still had the split boots under the tape, they were a good illustration of how much material had to be removed. I may still have the instructions in my file, if you want to see it; if you can PM me a fax # I'll see what I can do.

Don't assume that because it clears when the vehicle is sitting still on the ground that it's going to clear when the car is moving. Make sure to test for clearance with the suspension compressed and with the steering turned.

yeah my bad, when i said he meant to tell me, I mean he meant to tell me and forgot to give me the instructions he had as well. But I actually did get one of his control arms because I needed one for my atx so I incidentally ended up with one; so I will just copy that but thanks for the fax offer anyway Also I will make sure to check everything out with the full weight on the car and turning the wheels and such. I will also have someone push down on the suspension and all that good stuff too. I did think about that, that when the car sits down maybe it will sit a little different and not be as close to the rotor. Ahh man it just seems to never end, I feel like this car is never going ot get together.

 

[JEM]

Also I will make sure to check everything out with the full weight on the car and turning the wheels and such. I will also have someone push down on the suspension and all that good stuff too.

I'd suggest that while the car's supported you put a jack under that one ball joint, jack it up until it starts to lift the car, and turn the steering back and forth and check clearance. That'll be more compression than you'd otherwise get, and you need to be able to *see* what's going on.

In my experience, if your balljoint and rotor make contact while driving you will hear it very clearly. Beware, too much contact will split the rotor or deform the balljoint, potentially catastrophic either way.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

I'd suggest that while the car's supported you put a jack under that one ball joint, jack it up until it starts to lift the car, and turn the steering back and forth and check clearance. That'll be more compression than you'd otherwise get, and you need to be able to *see* what's going on.

In my experience, if your balljoint and rotor make contact while driving you will hear it very clearly. Beware, too much contact will split the rotor or deform the balljoint, potentially catastrophic either way.

Damn, now that you mention that I used to get a metal on metal sound when I took hard turns from my left front wheel (this was with my old Baer kit that came on my car when I got it) I bet the PO didn't grind the LCA.