SHO vibrations - Major clutch problems

[Zap]

I need some serious advice here folks. The '94 may be on it's way out the door if this problem can't be fixed. I'm tired of money being thrown around to fix a problem all because of flawed parts and bad choices. Here's the story:

HD PP/Fibertuff/Ceramic TOB from SHONut (to replace original clutch), ran beautifully for the first 9k of its life, was broken in properly for 1000 miles. Started slipping around 9k, around when a local shop had worked on it. That got worse. The car was taken in (to a SHO savvy shop) and the HD PP and Fibertuff were shot. I never got to see the old parts, but there is no dispute of the facts. The clutch parts were shot. I am only left to guess two things on the fibertuff clutch: flawed part or shop abuse. I am leaning heavily toward the latter, as I don't see why the parts would just croak after 9k, and when they were perfect before.

Picked up a Ford Clutch Kit from SHONut in order to save money the second time around, had it installed, now there is a bad vibration at idle, almost like the first clutch that came with the car. The first clutch failed due to the PP fingers wearing, cutting into the TOB, and shearing off the face of it. I will not tolerate another clutch failure. The ceramic TOB that was installed was checked to be OK & reinstalled (and otherwise ALL NEW PARTS were installed).

When the car is idling in neutral, you can feel vibration in the brake pedal (as well as the clutch). This was NOT present prior to the new clutch installation. I need to isolate WHY this is happening. The diagnosis is motor mounts, but I don't see why this would be the case if there was not a single thing of the sort prior to the new clutch. We never had these symptoms during the whole 10k of the HDPP/Fibertuff clutch.

Joy can't afford to pay to have the mounts replaced (and I'm not really up for doing MORE SHO work, unless I get some serious help) only to find out that the new clutch parts are flawed, and then have to pay to have those removed and replaced AGAIN. That would be the 4th clutch in 10k.

I need to know if anyone has ever experienced this problem, and what they did to solve it. The SHO's have not run properly in months, and I've had it with them.

I'm also curious about the clutch pedal/adjustment stuff. The first clutch that came out had a disc that looked almost new to me. You could still see the lines on it and such. No idea how old the clutch was, just came that way off the lot. Then, after a perfect 9k, the fibertuff clutch started having problems. Could it be that something is not properly operating in the clutch system that is frying otherwise fine clutches?

What do YOU think? Bad PP or worn motor mounts? Clutch adjuster problem? Other clutch issue? I'm on a limb here.. I really would love to not have to part with the '94, but if it is going to keep having these expenses, it would be cheaper and easier to buy another Moonlight Blue MTX SHO. I think that says enough about the problem.

 

[COliveira95]

Possibility that the PP bolts were not torqued properly and are backing out. If they said your Motor mounts are bad, check them. Open the hood, get in, engage the e-brake, put it in first and slowly let out the clutch. Watch the top of the motor. If it moves a little bit then your mount is ok. If it shifts quite a bit then the mount is bad. Same goes for reverse. Good luck!

 

[SHO_Driver]

Also check your transmision mount, if it's really gone it can transmit engine vibration to the interior.

 

[masho95]

The car was taken in (to a SHO savvy shop) and the HD PP and Fibertuff were shot. I never got to see the old parts, but there is no dispute of the facts. The clutch parts were shot. I am only left to guess two things on the fibertuff clutch: flawed part or shop abuse. I am leaning heavily toward the latter, as I don't see why the parts would just croak after 9k, and when they were perfect before.

Did you ever get anywhere by talking with the first shop? I remember from the original post you were going to go there to question them about it.

Picked up a Ford Clutch Kit from SHONut in order to save money the second time around, had it installed, now there is a bad vibration at idle, almost like the first clutch that came with the car.

So you got the stock clutch disc and PP then... what did the shop say was the problem with the old disc, and specifically the PP??

When the car is idling in neutral, you can feel vibration in the brake pedal (as well as the clutch). This was NOT present prior to the new clutch installation. I need to isolate WHY this is happening. The diagnosis is motor mounts, but I don't see why this would be the case if there was not a single thing of the sort prior to the new clutch. We never had these symptoms during the whole 10k of the HDPP/Fibertuff clutch.

I doubt that the motor mounts would just suddenly act up like that especially since it never happened before, including when you had the 9-puck installed.
I would venture to guess that you have a mix between a misaligned clutch disc and PP and Flywheel bolt not torqued properly. They both require a two stage torquing specification and Blue Loctite to keep them in place.

Unfortunately for you I fear your not going to have this problem fixed without having the transmission out again. You should have (or still should) had the shop that took out the 9-puck write up a statement saying what went wrong, at least then you'd have something written by the tech. to bring to the original shop that you believe caused the problem.

What did the original shop do to your car when you brought it there? Was the 9-puck still in the break in period?

 

[Shoaz]

Some additional thoughts:

You haven't mentioned anything about the flywheel. Was the flywheel removed and resurfaced during any of these clutch changes? If the flywheel was affected by the previous clutch failure(s) it may be contributing to the symptoms you're seeing now. A regrinding isn't overly expensive and should be done, IMHO, every time the clutch is changed.

You should demand the parts from the Fibertuff clutch, i.e., the disk and the PP, back. That HD PP is an expensive part, and even if it was damaged (which it may not have been), it can be reconditioned. Never let a shop keep an expensive performance part solely on their word that it is bad. Many unscrupulous shops get some of their performance part supply this way for resale to the next guy.

Even if the parts were bad, having them in hand would allow you to send pix or whatever to folks to get a decent diagnosis of what happened, so that you can prevent it from happening again.

I don't think the problems you're having here are SHO specific. A lot of things can go wrong with clutches that if they aren't properly handled will cause this sort of trouble on any car. This sounds to me like a general maintenance issue, not a SHO issue. In other words, I think this story could have played out the same with any car, not just a SHO.

The inputs from others on proper installation are also appropriate to consider, e.g., whether the PP was properly torqued down.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking about the clutch adjuster. Lifting up on the clutch pedal with your toe occassionally should take any slack out of the cable.

 

[Zap]

I never went back to the original shop. The car was there for a day to have rear brake work done on it (they did the original work and one of the calipers went funk). They had it when it was about 9k old. I left the decision up to Joy's parents as for what to do. I guess they still trust the shop to work on their other cars

The problem with the fibertuff/HD PP was that the whole clutch assembly was fried. It appeared as if it had suffered some abuse, or something of that nature.

For the mounts, the car was up on a lift and there was vibration observed in the mounts, but my thought was that it would be transmitted to the mounts if the clutch was off balance.

I suppose that I could have a statement written up about the old clutch, but frankly I don't know if that would make any difference. The problem I face now is that if the assembly is pulled and it is a parts flaw, the work isn't covered.

At this point, it seems like the opinion is a part or installation problem with the clutch. We really just want it to be fixed and not get :****: .

 

[masho95]

Just by going what the shop said that the clutch and PP "were fried" doesn't mean much. You should find out exactly what was wrong with them. The 9-puck/HD PP is such a sturdy combo, I'm hard pressed to find out how it went bad so quickly, and I doubt it was a part problem, although it is always possible. Just out of curiosity who did the clutch install of the 9-puck?

 

[Zap]

As for the new comments:

The parts were thrown out, that is what I was told. I specifically asked about the flywheel, and was told it was OK from the last resurfacing prior to the installation of the fibertuff clutch.

I guess I should clarify that I installed the fibertuff clutch in this car with a friend of mine, and we followed all the instructions and suggestions here on the forum. I had the flywheel resurfaced, replaced all the wear parts, put in the Ceramic TOB, and followed all the TQ specs and directions. The clutch was broken in for 1000 miles before seeing any spirited driving. It performed beautifully until it was taken into a shop for brake work with around 9k on it. Joy was driving a few days later and I noticed a slip in 5th gear. It went downhill from there.

We took the car in for the Ford clutch to be installed. I just couldn't do another clutch after doing both cars and then doing a Front 60k on mine to boot.