Running rich, stalling

[Mike Kopstain]

Where to begin, where to begin... This car is weird. First and foremost, here are the codes I get:

111 - System checks OK

136 - Oxygen sensor not switching/system lean Left or Front HO2S

172 - Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean - Single Right or Rear HO2S

176 - Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean Left or Front HO2S

332 - EGR did not open/respond during test or if memory code did not open intermittantly

Those codes would probably tell you that the car is running lean... Well it's running rich, really rich; so rich that I am lucky if I get 200 miles to a full tank of gas and the exhaust reaks of unburned fuel.

That's problem number one. That's the main problem... Everything else seems to be mildly related.

Second problem: If the car warms up too much (no where near overheating), it will stall when coming to a stop or idle at 500 rpm and shoot up, and the check engine light will come on while driving. If I'm taking off normally from a stoplight the check engine light will usually go off at about 20mph. When that happens the car gets a little burst of energy. If I leave the climate control on Automatic, it will cycle the A/C Compressor and the fans, keeping the car cool enough to avoid the stalling or the check engine light.

Problem three: Sometimes when putting the car in the start position, but not starting it, it acts as if it's in test mode. It will cycle the fan and the fuel pump and then start up with the codes. The same happens sometimes when actually starting it, but the engine seems to lurch back to normal right after the computer advances the timing.

Anyone care to take a stab at this one?

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[Porkchop]

Mike, how old are the o2's? I was toying with the possibility of the 02's being so shot that its telling the computer its running lean - but in reality its fine and is dumping MORE fuel onto an already fine running car.

#2 - if im not mistaken the CCRM controls the cooling system/fans/fuel pump and a majority of other important things. Is there a chance that the CCRM might be going bad?? shrug

#3 - beats me

Im no SHO professional - but from my knowledge thats what I can come up with - but im probably more off than the Red Sox bullpen.

 

[pjtoledo]

You may have a faulty injector. Try a mechanics stethoscope on each injector. You should be able to hear them click. Just one of many possibilities.


Perry

 

[sdpatt]

Your car is running rich because it has a vacuum leak (no other sensor input errors identified) and the EEC is trying to compensate by injecting as much fuel as possible to get the mixture up to normal. The EGR is either disconnected (leak) or the nostril in the intake are plugged. Find the vacuum leak, fix it and reset the idle speed program. Search if you must to find the procedures for these situations.

 

[MeShoHorny]

Mike, take the jumper off the test connector man

 

[Mike Kopstain]

sdpatt:
Your car is running rich because it has a vacuum leak (no other sensor input errors identified) and the EEC is trying to compensate by injecting as much fuel as possible to get the mixture up to normal. The EGR is either disconnected (leak) or the nostril in the intake are plugged. Find the vacuum leak, fix it and reset the idle speed program. Search if you must to find the procedures for these situations.

That was my thought, however all the gaskets are new and the engine holds vacuum. The EGR is connected and the nostrils were cleaned a week ago during a 60k. Perhaps the DPFE sensor?

Mike, take the jumper off the test connector man

That's what I thought... I was kicking myself and then I popped the hood only to find out that there was no jumper wire. frown

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Well, I took a little closer look today and noticed that one of the hoses coming off of the DPFE was broken. I probably did it during the 60k. So I replaced it, and cleared the codes, thinking my problem was done with...

Well... Same stuff, same codes. Anyone have any more guesses? I can't find a vacuum leak and I'm not getting any codes other than the engine running lean. ANY help is appreciated.

 

[AutoSHO]

Sounds like a short in the harness or a bad Computer to me.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

AutoSHO:
Sounds like a short in the harness or a bad Computer to me.

Honestly, at this point I don't think it is.

 

[Rockledge]

Mike,

The following information was given to me by a Ford Tech several months ago, taken out of one of his Ford Manuals pertaining to DTCs....maybe it'll provide you with some more ideas:

Possible Causes for lean and rich DTCs:

I. Fuel system

-Excessive fuel pressure
-Leaking/contaminated fuel-injector(s)
-Leaking fuel pressure-regulator
-Low fuel pressure or-running out of fuel
-Vapor recovery system

II. Induction system

-Air leaks after the MAF
-Vacuum Leaks
-PCV system
-Improperly seated engine oil dipstick

III. EGR system

-Leaking gasket
-Stuck EGR valve
-Leaking diaphragm or EVR

IV. Base Engine

-Oil overfill
-Cam timing
-Cylinder compression
-Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2Ss

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Rockledge ]</small>

 

[Axianator]

Not that this is related, but out of curiosity, do you have a chip or anything connected to the J3 port on the PCM, Mikey?

 

[Mike Kopstain]

No sir

 

[AutoSHO]

Mikeys_Taurus:

AutoSHO:
Sounds like a short in the harness or a bad Computer to me.

Honestly, at this point I don't think it is.

What else would cause it to occasionally go into diagnostic mode?

 

[NinjaMike]

AutoSHO:

Mikeys_Taurus:

AutoSHO:
Sounds like a short in the harness or a bad Computer to me.

Honestly, at this point I don't think it is.

What else would cause it to occasionally go into diagnostic mode?

I don't think the two problems are related...

 

[AutoSHO]

NinjaMike:

AutoSHO:

Mikeys_Taurus:

AutoSHO:
Sounds like a short in the harness or a bad Computer to me.

Honestly, at this point I don't think it is.

What else would cause it to occasionally go into diagnostic mode?

I don't think the two problems are related...

I still think any computer thats occasionally going into diagnostic mode has something wrong either in the wiring harness or internally. And if thats causing a problem, why is it so hard to fathom it could cause other problems also?

I'm not saying its the only problem, but I think its contributing to the driveability problems the car has.

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: AutoSHO ]</small>

 

[NinjaMike]

Because other than that, there are no drivability problems. The computer itself does not get cooler/ hotter with the motor, so my teperature dependant problem, I don't think, is caused by the ECU.