Replacing Piston rings Question

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92sho16

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This spring when the sho comes out of storage i am going to be doing the rod bearings and i think i have a bad head gasket so i will be replacing those to more than likely. My question is can i just replace the piston rings while im there without honing or is there some other preparation needed? And total seal rings are like twice the price as normal but ive read that they are worth the extra cash can anyone support this?
 

AREA 91

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I am a big fan of Total Seal rings, if used in the proper application. You shouldn't need to hone your block at all, if it's in good condition. At most I would "de-glaze" the cylinder walls. Standard rings are cheap, and work very well. Be VERY careful when installing the new piston rings. The oil control rings are very fragile, and can bend very easily. Take your time, and you will be fine.

Good Luck. :thumb:
 

AREA 91

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P.S. Why do you thing you have a bad head gasket? It's pretty rare for the yamahammer's to eat head gaskets.
 

TYSHO

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If you're going to do that, you might as well replace the valve stem seals, too.

From the RCM website on total seal rings:

Top compression rings are gapless for improved cylinder sealing,
resulting in more efficient cylinder filling and less compression loss.
Cylinder wall prep: Roughness- Ra 14-20 at 45deg. crosshatch.
Break-in: conventional 5W-30 oil (non-synthetic) for 3,000mi.
 

TYSHO

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witsimpala said:
It's pretty rare for the yamahammer's to eat head gaskets.

I know of one that is sitting with 103k with a blown head gasket. :frown:
 
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yamapowered

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what about tapered cylinder walls? why dosent anyone mention that??
putting new rings in a cylinder that isnt round or worse, tapered at the top is a waste of time/money.
unless this is a engine with very low miles like under 20k????
Javier
 
Y

yamapowered

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dial bore gauge dosent lie, and if one is not used during engine teardown, whats the point? combustion engine pumps air, why make it pump oil?
Javier
 

zuup_2000

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If you plan on replacing the rings, you MUST de-glaze the cylinder walls. If you dont, the rings will not seat. It is very easy to do it yourself if you are mechanically inclined. You have to form a good crosshatch during the de-glazing, which is easy after you get the hang of it. I prefer the honing stone's over the ball hone, but the ball hone is easier to use. Ive de-glazed many engines in the past using honing stones and a mix of 50/50 motor oil and kerosene to lubricate the stones. You will want to make or purchase a device to limit the drill motor speed while doing this, and you will want a helper to spray the **** into the cylinder during honing. If you want to venture into doing this, PM me and Ill give you all the info you will need. You can re-use your pistons as long as they are in good shape, but they must go back into the same cylinder they came out of. You also need to use a certain stone for a certain hatch depth depending on your rings you buy (moly vs. standard).
Like mentioned above, if your cylinders are severly worn, you may waste your time doing this. I only do this on blocks where the tolerances are still within spec AFTER I hone the cylinders. So if your cylinders are already at or past the spec limits, you may want to take a different route, but it still can be done. There is always a right and wrong to engine rebuilding, but sometimes the money makes the decision for some folks. You can take alternative routes with great success, although they arent considered the correct route. If you cant afford to do it one way, you just cant afford to do it.
Proper machining is the most important thing over looked when folks do engine rebuilds, but it can get very expensive when done correctly. There are also alot of shops that are incorrectly machining blocks, but its hard to know which ones unless you yourself are know alot about it.

Yada...Yada...Yada, I guess Im rambling on.
 

92sho16

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witsimpala said:
P.S. Why do you thing you have a bad head gasket? It's pretty rare for the yamahammer's to eat head gaskets.

Went it went away to storage my mom was following me and she said it was puffing white smoke out of the exhaust, and i was underneath the car and noticed an some oil that looked like it was coming out of the motor where the head meats the block deck. Also this past june i cracked my radiator at the track so i was running it really warm but it didnt ever reach the top of the gauge so i thought it was alright this might have been the cause. I wanted to aviod honing/deglazing be cause i want to keep the motor in the car, its just since i was doing the rod bearinsgs and possibly doing the head gaskets i fiqured i should do the rings while i was right there and disconneting them from the crank. Honing the motor while the crank is in the car or not taking the motor out to have it hot tanked would be stupid imo, thoughts on this?
 

zuup_2000

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92sho16 said:
Went it went away to storage my mom was following me and she said it was puffing white smoke out of the exhaust, and i was underneath the car and noticed an some oil that looked like it was coming out of the motor where the head meats the block deck. Also this past june i cracked my radiator at the track so i was running it really warm but it didnt ever reach the top of the gauge so i thought it was alright this might have been the cause. I wanted to aviod honing/deglazing be cause i want to keep the motor in the car, its just since i was doing the rod bearinsgs and possibly doing the head gaskets i fiqured i should do the rings while i was right there and disconneting them from the crank. Honing the motor while the crank is in the car or not taking the motor out to have it hot tanked would be stupid imo, thoughts on this?
I wouldnt attempt messing with the pistons or rings (or honing for that matter) with the engine still in the car. You could never do it correctly with it in the car. If your not going to pull the motor, leave the pistons and rings alone.
 

yamahaSHO

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BeautifulDisasterSho said:
Because it's cheaper not to have your block machined, less labor, and not many people have had a problem with our cast iron sleeves, that's why.

These motor are not sleeved.

If you want to replace the rings, make sure everything is within tight tolerances and hone the cylinders if you plan on using the same pistons. I recommend pulling the engine. If you can find a decent replacement, I would do a motor swap (or build up a different motor, then swap).
 
S

shoebilly

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A ridge on the cylinder wall will distort the sharp edge of a new ring at the top (making it cup) and for this reason it is a good Idea to make sure the ridge is cut down. Unfortunatly this will usually bring the cyl. out of spec. If you put one of the old top rings in its perspective cyl. and measure the gap it will probably measure to be 0.020 to 0.025 before honing. Specification for the gap is about 0.016 max(not sure) I think for the top ring. If this is the case the new ring will be near 0.015 and after break-in it will be out of tolorence. Remember the oil control ring getting carboned up is the reason these motors end up burning massive quantities of oil. I have done the quick hone to a sho motor in that car is working very well and uses about a qt. every 2000mi(hard mi.) now. The reused piston grooves need to be decarboned with a proper tool. Engine cyl.'s should be honed with a torque plate & fitted with new pistons if you want restore ring sealing & insurance in reliability on any rebuild. The walls of the cyl. are not the key ingredient in ring sealing, it is the ring lands in the grooves in the piston that are more critical. Its possible I'm making this all up.
 

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