Removing 2nd Gen Tension Pulleys (ATX)

[HazMatt]

I'm trying to get to my water pump and I tried to remove the left tensioner pulley (viewing from passenger side fender) and i ended up breaking a piece of the casing that holds the pulley, as well as part of the lower timing belt casing.

How do I remove these pulleys (both, i only started on one, broke something, and came here) without further damage? Am I missing something?

I read on the 60k website that there is two 5.5mm hex screws that you loosen before trying to remove the actual pulleys but I couldnt find the screws anywhere near the pulleys so I just tried to strong arm em off.

 

[hawkeye18]

the hex screws are only found on the MTXs. To remove the tensioner pulley, all you have to do is put a 17mm socket on the bolt in the middle of it and turn counterclockwise, as with any other bolt. Can you provide pictures of the damage? I need to know what exactly it is that broke so I can tell you how bad it is.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Thats not how to handle a job like this. You will really screw up the car. The tensioners bolt on to the engone so you could remove the bolts that hold them on.

Have pictures?

 

[HazMatt]

ill go grab some pics right now thanks for the quick response. should have em up within 15 min.

 

[HazMatt]

for some reason this site wont allow me to link pictures via URL so i'm just going to post the links:

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/img011s.jpg/ this picture shows the two pieces that broke off. the piece on the left is from the lower timing case and the piece on the right is from whatever base the tensioner pulley is connected to. the piece on the right used to be what id assume was the stopper tab for the tensioner pulley, meaning when you pulled it back, that little tab hit a piece of metal on the base and stopped it from turning further.

http://img411.imageshack.us/i/img009jz.jpg/ this is the base of the left tensioner pulley. the pulley has like an arm that it sits on, and that arm connects to a base. this picture is of that base, where the stopping mechanism used to be. the bright shiney area is where it broke. that is where the piece in the previous picture (right side) came from.

http://img694.imageshack.us/i/img007jh.jpg/ this picture shows both of the damages. you can see on the left side, the shiney area on the base i was just talking about. also notice where the timing belt comes down, the casing right behind it where that edge makes a sharp curve is where it broke.

http://img440.imageshack.us/i/img006w.jpg/ a better shot of the timing case, as well as probably the best picture of the pulley base i have. (clarity wise)

http://img80.imageshack.us/i/img005wc.jpg/ and finally this is a close up of where the timing case broke.

 

[HazMatt]

p.s. if anyone could tell me how to remove this pulley without further damage to my vehicle (this is also so I can get the lower timing case off, ill take pictures of the full extent of the damage once its removed) please let me know. I'd like to at least get the water pump off before this beautiful day ends.

 

[hawkeye18]

Holy ****, what were you trying to remove the pulley with, a jackhammer? None of that should have happened. Well, I might could see you ripping the stop post off, but not the timing belt cover. That kinda tells me you were hitting stuff.

 

[HazMatt]

no i seriously wasnt hitting anything lol im not a baffon. I know how to work on my car to the best of my ability and I never hit anything.

I used a huge ratchet (i believe its 1/2) thats about the size of a breaker bar. I tried to take the bolt off the standard way (counter clockwise) and it just snapped like that. How can I remove this without further damage? Any way to lock that arm behind the pulley?

 

[93rev2sev]

Remove the water pump pulley. There's a bolt head under there for the tensioner.

 

[HazMatt]

I h ave a problem with that too. I removed the four 12mm bolts on the water pump pulley but it didnt come off. Like I said previously, I dont beat on my car with hammers and such so I didnt want to force it off. Is there something I'm not doing right there? (all i have is the 4 bolts removed from the pump pulley)

 

[93rev2sev]

I removed the four 12mm bolts on the water pump pulley but it didnt come off. Like I said previously, I dont beat on my car with hammers and such so I didnt want to force it off. Is there something I'm not doing right there? (all i have is the 4 bolts removed from the pump pulley)

Torch to heat it up, SMALL hammer to convince it.

 

[HazMatt]

thanks a lot ill go get crackin.

 

[digsj7]

WOW!! I just replaced my water pump a couple weeks ago and I'm not really sure how you would have broke any casings? You dont need to take the pulley off the tensioner..just take out the bolt for the whole tensioner assy. Also, be careful when your removing the plastic cover for the timing belt. I believe every pulley needs to come off except for the AC, Alternator (there is one bolt behind it that is a very tight fit) and power steering, and Crank. Just take you time. Ford recommends that you change your crank sensor while your in there, but its not necessary. I didnt and everything is fine. Be sure to mark your cam pulleys so your timing doesnt get jacked.

 

[SHOtimer]

The two 'idler pulleys' on an ATX (those are the two on the right side of the motor- from your point of view looking at the motor from the passenger side fender). They are stacked, one on top of another. You simply unscrew the bolts in the middle of them and they come off.

The tensioner pulley (the one on the left side) is bolted to the belt tensioner. It is not necessary to remove that pulley from the tensioner.

You have to remove the water pump pulley and the power steering pulley in order to access the one bolt holding the tensioner to the engine block. Remove the bolt which is recessed in the middle of the tensioner, and it should come free. Their is an indexing '******' on the back of the tensioner that fits into a hold in the block to keep it where it should be. Don't break that ****** (it sounds like you have already) as once that is broken the tensioner is useless.

Doug

 

[HazMatt]

I'm assuming the metal had weakened on the base of the pulley, hence how it snapped. These are old cars so I wouldnt quite rule out metal fatigue. I got the pump pulley off now, as well as the tensioner pulley (i had to just strong arm it past where it bent, i rested the pulley on the power steering (i think thats the pulley i dont remember off hand, the biggest one on the top left from passenger side view) pulley and breaker bar'd it.

Thanks everyone for all of your help. As far as I can tell, there are no fluids running through any of the casings I broke, so dirt, oil, debris, whatever is all I'd technically have to worry about but I'm going to seal up where I broke so particles cannot get into it.

Thanks again to everyone for your help. Now to find that 4th damn bolt on the lower timing case so I can FINALLY get it off and take my pump out!

Thanks a lot to everyone who has helped me. As always, I'm super greatful to be an enthusiast and have such valuable knowledge at my disposal on this forum. Thanks again to everyone!!!!

 

[HazMatt]

Also, SHOTimer, I will get back to you about that ****** breaking. I havent reassembled the car yet so I'm not sure if the tensioner is broken but it seems to be free floating and I'm kind of veering to your last comment about how its probably broken and useless. If thats the case, looks like i'm strapping up and taking my tools to a junkyard tomorrow to repeat the process and remove the entire tension pulley housing to replace my broken one.

 

[SHOtimer]

I don't think metal fatigue is an issue with anything you are working on.

It just appears that instead of taking the car apart properly you forced things and broke them.

I hope you are aware that in order to properly change the pump and O-rings, you should also be replacing the timing belt and CPS.

This is for an MTX, but it will at least help you:

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm

Doug

 

[HazMatt]

Once again I dont beat on my car and I dont appreciate the assumptions youre making about that neither. I'm 25 years old and 160lb i dont have the strength nor tools to just beat on shit so if you would like to refrain from repeating that over and over id be greatly appreciative.

I went to take off the pulley, it moved upwards and stopped on the ******, locking it in place. Once it was locked, I simply gave it a little strength to unbreak the bolt and the ****** snapped before the bolt broke off. Im sorry that its so hard for you to understand that in this scenerio a rusted on bolt was stronger than the actual item within the car.

Also, I dont necessarily have the money to just go buy a new timing belt and CPS for fun. My timing belt is in great condition, all the notches are lined up where they should be. I barely have enough money to buy a new water pump and go to the junkyard to buy a new middle and lower timing belt housing, as well as the tensioner pulley and base and i broke, let alone do what you said or even the full 60k.

When I have the money and time this summer ill do it the right way, for now I'm changing my water pump so I can have my vehicle back on the road considering its my daily driver and its driven daily.

 

[HazMatt]

Holy ****, what were you trying to remove the pulley with, a jackhammer? None of that should have happened. Well, I might could see you ripping the stop post off, but not the timing belt cover. That kinda tells me you were hitting stuff.

And I know you didnt say stuff about me beating on my car more than once, but this guy had already stated that previously as well and if you read my response to him youd know that wasnt the case.

 

[hawkeye18]

And I know you didnt say stuff about me beating on my car more than once, but this guy had already stated that previously as well and if you read my response to him youd know that wasnt the case.

ok, ok, calm down. I get it. You didn't beat on it. I'm still confused as to how you managed to break a chunk off the timing belt cover, though...