Positioning Rear 26mm Sway Bar

[dmichel1]

Hello All,

I have a 98 SHO with 105,000 miles that is currently undergoing a suspension overhaul. I recently had my struts, strut mounts, two front springs, front and rear sway bar endlinks replaced. I had a bad clunking/rubbing prior to this overhaul that I thought would go away but it persists despite the shocking bill. The shop is very helpful and they even ordered replacement struts on the inkling that they got two defective rear ones. Last time I went to pick up the car they took me into the shop, told me the noise was still there, put the car up on the lift and told me how they just couldn't get my rear sway bar to sit flat, and how contorted the endlinks were with this "big bar." They even showed me how the bar was rubbing wrong on the plastic donuts. they claim that if they disconnect the endlinks, the noise goes away, other than it clanging around done there unbolted.

Now, this 26mm bar has been on the car for 40,000 miles with what some call the "polyurethane noise" (which I can tolerate) but nothing that resembles the "clunk/rub" that had developed in the 5,000 miles prior to this suspension work and which persists now.

The shop ordered the same sized endlinks that were on the car when I brought it in, from Energy suspension. I remember when the bar was installed long ago, the (different) shop told me that they had to "fiddle" with it to sit right. After the installation there was no noise nearly as intrusive and harsh as what I have now.

Obviously, the question is whether there is some trick to making the bar sit flatter that will **** this horrible noise, some tip I can pass on to the mechanic so I can enjoy how nice a new, non-clunky spensension can be.

Thanks for any help,
Bests,
Dave M

 

[Mr. SHO]

I really doubt the noise has anything to do with the sway bar's position. It's either in there or it's not. The mounts and end-links don't allow for any movement. Most likely the shop was referring to the contortion act it takes to snake the bar into place.

Did you have any ***-hole incidents or curb-hops recently? There could be damage elsewhere, but it would be unlikely to develop these noises w/o some sort of impact to set things off.

 

[dmichel1]

No curb hopping mishaps or anything like that. The noise has developed increasingly over the last 5,000 miles. It is at its most noticeable when the rear end comes down from a speed bump.

When the mechanic showed me the endlinks I could see how hte position of the bar was depressing one side of the donut and not really sitting well, for lack of a more precise diagnosis.

Subjective reason why I think it is the bar:
After the mechanic reinstalled it so I could drive home, there was a substantial reduction in the noise on my drive home. The car felt more planted, more like my SHO when I first got it, and I only heard the disturbing noise once over a few sharp bumps. after 40 miles of the driving, the noise crept back to the point where small and smaller road imperfections were bringing out the "clunk/rub". It was as if the bar had loosened up some how and was playing around.

The shop claims to have checked every other possible suspension component and they swear it is the bar. but who knows.....

 

[SHOZ123]

Unless the weight of the car is on the suspension you can't go by what the end link bushings look like. Maybe they have the wrong end links? Do they have the correct size sway bar bushings?

 

[dmichel1]

They didn't change the bushings. They claim they ordered what were on the car. The links look long enough just not angled right, if you know what I mean.

If not the links, what could it be?

 

[Mr. SHO]

You mention "polyurethane noise" which is an indicator that the wrong parts were used. There are no endlinks or bar bushings made of poly which will properly fit our cars. The only proper OE-style parts would be either rubber or TPR, neither of which will squeak. I'm curious what parts the shop used when they installed the bar.

I have never heard of the rear bar itself failing. It's entirely possible that they used Energy Suspension bushings, which are a universal fit and do not work well on our cars. The ES links are shorter than stock, and the ES bar bushings are totally the wrong shape to fit our brackets. Many people try to use them anyway and end up with problems.

 

[dmichel1]

yes, as I said in the first post, Energy suspension endlinks (and bushings) are on the car, which, if incompatible with v8shos, is a bit of a bummer as they are frequently mentioned in posts and on v8sho.com as viable choices people have made. looking over the archives now, and considering the last post, it seems that some new links and bushings are in order to remedy this noise.

As stated, I have a loud clunk and rubber rubbing noise over bumps, are the poly bushings and links able to make noises that bad with a 26mm bar? the noise is pretty freakish sometimes. I guess I'm lucky I had so little noise for 40,000 miles!

anyhow, if the ES stuff seems to be a likely culprit, anyone have a quick part number for the optimal bushings and links for a 26mm RSB? Which company?

Thanks
Dave M

 

[Mr. SHO]

The best parts to use are Moog TPR bushings and Moog end links w/ TPR bushings. The ES end-links will fit, but are shorter, and eventually the polyurethane falls apart (I think your mechanic would have noticed if the poly was deteriorated).

The Moog parts are available from RockAuto.com
Moog p/n K8761 (TPR rear bushings for 26mm bar) $13/pr at RockAuto
Moog p/n K3124 (Heavy duty end link w/ TPR bushings) $15 EACH at RockAuto (you'll need TWO).

The prices fluctuate from time to time.

Suspension noises are hard to diagnose over the 'net. Most noises from the back are related to end links, but that's usually a clunk or popping noise.

edit- just to clarify, there are Energy Suspension BAR bushings which hold the bar to the chassis, and then there are the end-link bushings. When I say the Energy Suspension bushings are NOT acceptable to use, I'm mainly referring to the bar bushings. The ES bar bushings have their own bracket and they are "u" shaped. The correct OE-style bushings have a teardrop shape and use the stock bushing brackets.

 

[dmichel1]

Mr SHO:
Thanks for the info. I will order the Moog/TPR endlinks and bushings and let everybody know what happens. I'm dying to know what a non-clunky, sturdy SHO feels like again.


Bests,

Dave M

 

[dmichel1]

Well,
I got the Moog bushings and endlinks for the 26 mm rear bar yesterday. Today I took them to the intall shop, which gave them one look and said, "nope, you got the wrong parts."

The owner and two mechanics claim that the endlinks are "way too long," (yes, longer they are, compared to the Energy Suspension ones on the car) and the tear-drop shaped bushings are "incompatible" with the bushing clamps.

The shop told me that the 26mm bar will not work on this car and that the popping noise over bumps and expansion joints is a sign of its incompatability.

As the bar has been on the car for 40,000 without any poppping or clunking, I have to wonder just what's going on.

I can't eliminate the bar from the noise-making equation until I can get the right links/bushings on the car but I can't do that if the shop claims the correct parts are incompatible. :cry:

Do I need new brackets for the tear-shaped bushings?
Will the longer Moog endlinks in fact work on the 26mm bar and is there something I can say to this shop to get them thinking about this problem in a different way?

This shop has agreed to fix this problem with no labor charge so I would like to continue working with them. Sad thing is that they are no really SHO savvy.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Dave M

 

[Ict_Lx]

Is it possible that the shop installed the bar upside down? That would make the endlinks look extremely long. I did that myself the first time and then realized it wasn't going to fit. Just a thought.

 

[SHOZ123]

This is the Moog rear sway bar end links I have K3124. A bit shorter than the ES ones IIRC as the last one installed was hard to get the nut started.

 

[dmichel1]

The thought that the bar was upside down occured to me the other day. I checked it and it looks correct.

The K3124s from Rockauto.com are definately longer than the energy suspension ones on the car, about the thread length on the bottom of the link longer. The Moog long metal link bolt is @10.5-11 inches and appears to be about an inch longer than the Energy suspension ones. As the energy suspension ones sit now on the car, the entire threaded section of the bolt is exposed at the bottom of the link.

Are everyone elses 26 mm rsb bushings tear-drop shaped and do they fit into the U-shaped metal brackets?

I'm really dying to figure out what this loud popping noise is, if not the sway bar. Whatever it is, it really effects the entire composure of the car over bumps and undulations in the road. The struts, mounts, and bearing plates are all new at all four corners.

Any continued troubleshooting is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Dave M

 

[dmichel1]

Tonight I get back from a spirited drive and as enter my parking lot, which has some seriously uneven pavement, I hear a creaky groan coming from the now-notorious rear-end. I turned off the car and pressed down ******* the rear end and it now makes this creaky groan on the way down and back up. When depressed, the rear driver side makes the creak/grown much more noticeably than the passenger side. Does this sound like a sway bar with crappy bushings/but new Energy Suspension links?

Just thought this bit of infor might help someone help me find out what's going on.

Dave

 

[SHOZ123]

That sounds more like a spring or strut. Did they put in new spring isolators or leave them out? Those rubber things it the spring sits on.

 

[Mr. SHO]

The reason why the shop is saying they are the wrong parts is because they are very different from what's on the car now. However, what's on the car now is wrong. All Tauruses ever made used the teardrop shaped bushings and the teardrop shaped bracket.

RANT - If the shop you are going to now doesn't know the difference between the Taurus bushings/brackets and the aftermarket bushings/brackets, they are incompetent and should not be in the business of fixing cars. It's one thing for an amateur or DIY-type to mess something like this up the first time around, but professionals should be held to a higher standard.

The only way the universal "U" shaped bracket got on your car is because someone decided to toss the original brackets rather than using the correct bushings the first time the 26mm bar went in. Seems to me these guys would have to know that, and they are just covering their ***** since they don't want to admit they used the wrong parts the first time, and/or that they threw out your OE brackets.

Same with the end-links. The reason they think they are too long is because they are longer than the ones on the car, which are too short!

Personally, I'd take the car elsewhere and tell the new shop that the previous shop f___ed everything up and you want it done right.

I wouldn't be surprised if this shop screwed up the strut/spring/mount installation either.

Here's a picture of what the sway bar should look like from the rear of the car looking forward.

Note the teardrop shaped bracket. It has only one bolt holding it in. The back side (which you are seeing) has a tab that inserts into a slot on the car's chassis. Also note the direction of the sway bar's curves. The end of the sway bar curves downward. It is possible to install the bar upside-down. The easy check is to view the bar from the side. The end of the bar (where it is flattened and has a hole to accept the endlink) will be approximately parallel to the ground if the bar is installed correctly and the right length end-links are used.

 

[dmichel1]

If I need the bushing brackets, can I just order SHO stock brackets for a rear bar? Or do I need a special bracket to fit the bushings for the 26 mm bar.

Two local ford dealerships can't tell me for sure.

Thanks,
Dave M.

 

[SHOZ123]

The bushing brackets are a standard Taurus part I believe.

 

[SHOMEX]

You can get any 89 to 99 rear subframe bushing bracket from any sho or regular taurus, if you don't have the time or tools I have one set of those brackets. Send me a p.m.